My one week of hell with tim's auto's in prescott, arizona.
When I first moved to Prescott, AZ at the end of one of the first things I noticed were the registration plates on the cars. Many had Tim's' on them. To be honest I didn't even know where this car dealership was until sometime in the summer of 2004.
One day in July or August, in the mail I received an invite to Tim's (1006 Commerce Drive, Prescott AZ 86305) and with the letter came a scratch off number. I had to go there between certain times on certain days to redeem my $5 (or more if I'd won that amount.) I did this and returned home.
This happened again on Thursday October 14th and when I returned the second time, a gentleman by the name of Robert sat down with me. He offered me $5,000 trade-in for my 1991 Dodge Dakota truck. I'm not silly and know that my truck's not worth that much and that it's all a numbers game. (In theory I'd put a lot into my truck including a rebuilt engine, transmission, new clutch, new tires, new mirror, tinted windows, along with a re-spray. I'd done other things too and not forgetting an oil change every 700 to 1,000 miles. I look after my things well.)
I told Robert that I had no intentions of selling my truck but thanked him. He was part of the scratch card / promotion team that circles the country to help dealerships sell more cars. I believe they're from Florida and they return about four times a year.
A few weeks after Robert and his team had left I started to read up on Toyota Corolla's. From what I read they're the most sold car in the world and they seem to last forever with great gas mileage. It was then that I started to think about Robert's offer and having no use for a truck anymore (as its original purpose was to deliver rugs in the greater Los Angeles area) I decided to take up Robert's offer and return.
I was excited about a newer vehicle, I think most people are when a change is about to happen. During the first weekend of December I called Tim's and was put on the phone with a salesperson called Pete. I explained all of the above to him and he welcomed me to the dealership. I told him I'd be there on Monday.
On Monday 12-6-04 it was a bitter cold morning as I drove down to Tim's. I was a little early and walked around their lot. You couldn't tell if there were Mini's or Roll's Royce's under the white blobs of snow. Each car was literally covered. After waiting for them to open I went inside. The man I'd been told to ask for (since talking to Pete) was Guy Graham. A friend of mine said that I could use his name for a reference along with a mutual friend of ours. My friend had told me to ask for Guy as they'd bought a few cars between them at Tim's.
I explained to Guy about my previous visits to Tim's along with Robert's offer of a $5,000 trade-in. When I was done I mentioned my friends' names. I asked if I could see Pete as he was the salesman who I'd originally spoke to and intended to meet.
Guy seemed like a nice gentleman and listened to everything that I had to say. Pete didn't come in until later that morning so he called over a salesman by the name of Marty.
Outside we wandered around as we tired to figure out my budget and what kind of car I was interested in. This was hard though because every car, like I said was a white blob. From time to time Marty would use his glove to clear off the snow on the lower right hand side of the windshield. He did this because every car had a small square yellow sticker there. This informs the salesman and the customer, the price, year and identification number (for the dealers use) of the vehicle.
Still unsure of what I wanted, Marty said, I'll tell you what. I'll give you $6,000 for your truck in trade-in and whatever you find here you can put towards it. Even if a vehicle is lower in price, we'll even give you some money back. I must say that I was impressed with his offer. I had no intentions of getting money back from Tim's but at least now I knew that I had an open window on all their vehicles. I was getting more and more excited.
Eventually we came across a white, Corolla. The sticker had 1995, $8,995 on it. This was exactly what I'd been looking for, although I'd have preferred a stick shift if I had the choice. It was a little dirty inside and it had two things wrong with it. There was a quarter sized hole on the driver's side front fender and there was a chip in the windshield. Marty said, Let's take it out for a drive. After getting me some coffee and the registration plate for the car, we left.
On the test drive I took the vehicle along Highway 89A so that I could see how it handled at higher speeds. Sadly, the steering wheel shook at 65mph. But aside the issues mentioned I liked this car a lot. But it was a 1995 and the Kelly blue book was $4,500 to $5,900. Tim's wanted $8,995 for it. Don't worry, Marty said, I'll give you a great deal and we can talk numbers once we get inside.
I'd mentioned to Marty that the promotion/scratch team was coming back in the week and asked if I'd get a better deal with them. He told me that he'd give me a good sales price before that event even started.
Inside Marty and I sat down and after going through some numbers on paper he said, OK this is what we've come up with. (In his hand I saw a piece of paper and it had $1,000 on the left and $240 on the right. I honestly thought he was going to offer the car to me (along with fixing the three problems) for $1,240 along with my truck as trade-in.) Unfortunately I was wrong. He told me along with my truck they wanted $1,000 down and $240 in monthly payments.
Marty looked at my questionable face and said, Well, give me your figures, what do you think? OK, I said, Outside you said you'd give me $6,000 for my truck. The car is three to four thousand dollars OVER the Kelly book for a start. So we're talking if anything about a $3,000 difference with my truck, for the car. Again, your still thousands over the Kelly book value, before we start. What with Closing costs, registration etc it'll be $500 more, so that's a $3,500 difference.
Remembering that dealerships always charge way too much, I gave him an offer that we could work up from. I said, I'll give you nine hundred dollars cash and you pay the closing costs etc. This was fair to me. I mean if you're going to offer me $6,000 for my truck and you're thousands over on the Kelly blue book to begin then in all actuality they owed me money if you think about it.
This man wouldn't be good at poker. His face went from a smile into one that contorted and was very upset, in a second. OK, these are the numbers your offering me are they? He said in a sarcastic tone, as if I was wasting his time. I'll see what Guy says. Marty got up and walked over to Guy's office. He wasn't impressed at all.
Returning he said, This is the best we can do, $3,500 and your truck for trade-in.in front of me was placed his business card and on the back was written the above information along with the cars VIN.
I wasn't desperate to get a car and I certainly didn't agree with their figures so I got up to leave. This was when Guy came over. Really this is all we can do. I can fix the chip in the windshield, fix the wobbling and patch up the fender. I'll clean it but $3,500 is my last offer.
I shook their hands and left. I promised Marty that I'd call him within the hour to conclude my decision. As I drove home I thought about it some more. When I called back I said, OK I might not be the smartest man in the world Marty but let me get this straight.in the yard you offered me $6,000 for my truck. You wanted $9,000 (all but $5) for the car and $500 for closing costs. That's a $3,500 difference. A few hours later when I went to leave, Guy's telling me that $3,500 is the BEST he can do. I haven't even started bartering yet and we're still at the SAME number from when we started. There's something radically wrong with that picture. He seemed angry and said, You know what, I'd have given you the car for $3,500 cash without your truck.
So what's at play here? Was the car marked up some four thousand plus dollars and most dealerships do this? That is an awful lot of money isn't it? Sadly the story doesn't end there and it only gets worse and worse.
Part two
If that wasn't bad enough I returned three days later to claim my $5 from a scratch off ticket. The promotional guys from Florida were back in town again for five days. I'd called ahead of time and asked for Robert (from that team) but I was told that he wasn't with them on this trip. I'd remembered an English gentleman by the name of Paul from their last two visits and asked to talk with him. When he got on the phone, he remembered me. I told him what I was after. I said if he couldn't find a Corolla, then look for a car with good fuel consumption that had a reliable name behind it. He said he'd look around and call me back that afternoon.
I also called Pete, the original salesman who I'd intended to see a few days before. Come up and we'll see what we can find for you, he said.
Again I was excited. I had a feeling that I was going to drive out of their lot with a car that day. When I arrived, an obnoxious man who I believe is called Ricky (a Tim's salesman) stopped me as I drove in. Where's your invitation, he asked. I said that I'd never been asked that before when I'd come to Tim's. Well we need to see the scratch off ticket or the letter, he said. Both were in my son's car seat at my side. I handed him the letter and he told me to drive in. As I was winding up my window I overheard him say to some other salesman, Watch this I'm going to show you all how to sell a car. He was referring to me.
I saw him in my mirror walking towards me, as I parked so the first thing I did when I got out of my truck was say, Pete, are you busy. I did this intentionally as I was offended by Ricky's obnoxiousness.
When Pete came over I asked to be alone. I wanted to walk around the lot by myself. I didn't want to waste his time when he could be getting commission on another sale and I told him this. I said, after I was done I'd return and we'd sort out my scratch off ticket and of course look at the cars of interest.
As I wandered around their lot and dirt' as they call it, I only came across a few cars that I liked. There were only a few because I only had so much in my budget.inside, I went to redeem my $5. Pete was busy, but he knew I was there and he asked me to hang on.in the meantime Paul came over and asked how I was. After explaining what I'd seen we went outside to look around.
He found a pristine 1995 Buick Regal. It had just come in and it was beautiful. I could see that this had been well looked after. It only 60,000 miles on the odometer and it was a nice price. They only wanted $6,000 for it. Great, I thought this was in my price range. If I traded my truck in, I was sure we could work out some numbers. Paul kept on about how reliable these cars were, how it was one of the best engines ever made and how long they last. He was very enthused by this car and he impressed me with his words.
We took it out for a drive and I loved it. First, he drove and further up the street I took the wheel. Back at Tim's I sat down while I waited for Paul to return. I was quite self conscience as I sat there for twenty minutes or so waiting for him to come back. I was so stoked when I finally saw him. When he sat down he didn't have the smile on his face that I'd seen earlier. He said they wanted $5,600 for the Buick WITH my truck. Something was radically wrong here and I asked him about it. Oh it was marked up wrong, he said. I continued by saying, Isn't there a law against that? If something is advertised at a price then shouldn't it be that? Sarcastically he replied, This isn't a supermarket?
By now I felt like I'd been walked over twice at Tim's and I'd really had a belly full of it. Is there anything else that interests you mate? He said.By this point I just wanted to go, but thinking about the Corolla I told him about my experience on Monday. As I explained it to him I got out Marty's business card that had the $3,500 trade in with the VIN on the back. Oh I'll see if it's still here, he said. He left for a few minutes and enthusiastically he returned. It was somewhere on the lot.
We got on a golf cart and eventually found it. I pointed out what was wrong and he said, Let's take it out for a drive. Paul got in the driver's seat and we left. As he drove along he said, This drives fine mate. No, I replied, at 65mph the car shakes. As I said that, he put his foot on the gas and got the car up into the sixties. At that exact moment a cop was coming towards us in the other direction. The speed limit we were in, I believe was 45 to 55mph. The cop did a U-turn and seconds later we were pulled over. Paul had no plates on the car at all.in a side street Paul got out and talked to the cop. At some point another one arrived as well.in the end the cop told him he was doing 70mph. Personally, I disagree, I saw 65.
Was I jinxed not to have this car I wondered? When we got back to the showroom it was around 5.30pm and it was dark now.inside I sat down. I hoped this time I'd get some better numbers sorted out on the SAME 1995 Toyota Corolla. Returning he tells me, its $3,500 with your truck OUT THE DOOR. Even if I was interested I said, Guy on Monday said the chip would be fixed, the fender would be patched and most importantly the shaking would be sorted out. No sorry, it's out the door mate, he said. I got up and said, OK, well thanks for your time.
Just like Marty, he was angry that I didn't want to conclude this transaction.in fact each time I got to Tim's the deal was getting worse. As I got up to leave I asked Paul where the business card was that I'd given to him earlier. The one that had the VIN and $3,500 on it! With total disregard to my belongings he nonchalantly said, Oh I don't know where it is I've lost it. What do you mean you've lost it, I said. That was something that I gave to you so that you could look something up for me on the computer. He had absolutely no respect for something that was mine. I'll admit I was angry now. I walked away and even went into the front office where Guy works (even though Guy wasn't there on this day) and asked if they'd seen my card. They hadn't. I even went over and checked out another office where Paul and I had sat earlier, but it wasn't there either.
As I left, the obnoxious salesman who I'd encountered when I'd first arrived (who'd taken my letter) said, Did you buy the car, did you buy the car! I was tired by this point and really wasn't in the mood for this man. I had dealership issues, I said. What issues, he asked. So I briefly explained my ordeal. Well did you get anything in writing, if it's not in writing its not a contract is it? He said. I just walked off I was sick of car salesman and I mean physically sick.
As I drove off, I could see that Paul was angry as he walked down the lot. Politely I said goodbye to him and he waved back. But he wasn't the same man who I'd spent time with earlier.
When I got home I just wanted to relax and forget about the whole thing. Some twenty minutes later my phone rang. It was Paul and he said, For $100 less I can have the 1995 Corolla AS IS and I'd have to sort out the wobbling. No, I said, to you and I, it might be as simple as that but for all I know it could be a serious problem and cost me hundreds.
Part three
I had to tell someone higher up in the company about this ordeal. So on Friday October 10th (the next morning) I called Tim's and asked how I could contact the owner. The receptionist told me that Tim was in from time to time but that a lady called Kelly was a good source to talk to. I was put through to her and told her that I had a long story to tell. I asked when it would be convenient to take up some of her time. She said that she had the time.
For half an hour she listened to everything that I had to say while typing it all out. When I was done she said, You've really had a bad experience, I'm sorry. This is top priority. I'll get back in touch with you later today. If not it'll be tomorrow.
Not too long after, Guy called me back. He asked me what car I was interested in and I said the Buick Regal. He said that he'd work on some numbers and would get back to me that afternoon.
As the day went on I heard nothing back. So I called the dealership. Kelly said, I've spoken to two of the directors here and you're going to get an outstanding deal, just wait. I was put through to Guy and asked if he could work on the numbers for the Corolla as well. I still hadn't made up my mind. Again he said he'd call back.
Not hearing from him yet again, I called at the end of the day. After a long wait I finally reached Guy. He said, Call back at 8.45a. M tomorrow and I'll have the numbers for you.
I didn't sleep much that night as I was so excited about the call the following morning. I called dead on 8.45am as asked. Guy said, I'm getting the VIN's right now. I was so busy yesterday. I'll call you in a few minutes.
An hour later I called back but he was dealing with a customer. When I called a third time he told me to wait while he went through the numbers. The Buick was still up in the $5,000 range and was way out of my league. But just like Kelly had said he had an outstanding deal for me. The Corolla that I'd been interested in since the beginning, the ONLY Corolla that I'd ever been in at Tim's was $3,300. You keep your truck, he said, you'll get more for it if you sell it privately. I'll fix the wobbling for you and it's yours for $3,300. This includes all the fees. I asked him about the Carfax and he looked at it while we spoke. It's been in no accidents, it's had one owner and it's been in Prescott Valley all its life.
I cannot express to you how excited I was. I wanted to get the car right there and then. But it had to be worked on and Guy said, It'll be ready on Monday. Pete will pick you up at 11.00am and you can come in and get your car. I thanked him for his time.
The last chapter
I was so stoked about my Corolla. I even called my Mom in England and I emailed many of my friends. I didn't get much sleep either due to the excitement. On Monday I called Guy at 7.45am just to make sure the times hadn't changed and everything was still on. He said it was. At 11.00am on the dot, Pete arrived and we went back to Tim's. Sadly the car wasn't ready and it was still being worked on. At 12.40 Pete drove it back from the workshop. I asked if I could take it out for a test drive and at the same time see my mechanic. This was all OK'd.
There was no more wobbling, it ran great and my mechanic said it was fine. Back at Tim's I jokingly walked in and said, Fill her up, clean her up and I'll give you a check. Everyone seemed happy. Pete even shook my hand, glad that in the end, it was all worked out.
I even met Kelly in person and thanked her for her time. I waited in a small cubicle for Pete to return so that we could conclude the deal. He brought the Carfax report to me and although I was tired I read the important parts. It hadn't been flooded and it hadn't been in any wrecks.
I got up to talk to Kelly again but she had a bellyache and was going home. Call me if you ever need anything else, she said. I'm so glad that this has worked out for you.
A few minutes later Pete returned to the cubicle and I was so excited, but his face wasn't. He said, You're not going to want to hear this mate. Hear what? I said. The Corolla that you've been driving is a 2000 and not a 1995. Guy's been giving you the numbers for a 1995. No, no I don't want to hear this, I said. Continuing I went on, Look I'm not an expert on cars. If you've put the wrong year on a vehicle then that's not my fault. I've only been interested in two cars in this lot and each time there's been a discrepancy on each one. Guy promised me THAT car for $3,300 out the door. What do you want me to do, question every single vehicle outside in case your employee's haven't put the right information on them. This is wrong, this is your error not mine. You've also wasted a whole week of my time. I'm not happy and I'm bloody disgusted to tell you the truth.
When I got up I was shaking. I went over to the receptionist to ask for Kelly but she'd already gone. Briefly I explained my dilemma and she told me to talk to a Mike Dennis. I'd never heard of him but he had some kind of authority there. I found him and we went into his office. This man had no interest at all in what I'd gone through. He just sat there with a grin on his face and jerked me around. He didn't have a care in the world as to what I had to say. I can't sell you a car for $5,000 less, he said. I replied, That car was promised to me for $3,300. Guy knows that that's the only Corolla that I've driven and the only one I wanted. Sorry I can't help you, he said.
I was sick to my stomach when I got up. I got my belongings and asked for someone to take me home. I was so angry. An hour later I called Kelly's voice mail and explained what had gone on. She's never called me back since.
I intend to send this letter to every news agency and paper that I know of. I'm going to send it to all the car dealerships in town requesting that they put this up on their wall so that people can see how Tim's treat their customers.
I have to laugh at the logo on their website, timsautoaz
It reads as follows:
Internet Manager: Ron Gilmore Let me show you how to save money! I guarantee you will have a pleasant buying experience.
Really? That statement is a joke in itself! I'm beyond words to tell you the truth. I'm utterly appalled at this company.
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