I've decided to copy our email correspondence regarding a contagious parasite found after the purchase of our male Newfoundland. These emails are accurate and honest with every detail included. This is a great example of the standard communication and issues you will need to deal with should you choose to work her.
In summary, this breeder does offer lower initial prices (cash only, for tax purposes) and has a kind demeanor when you first interact. However, the same about you save you will need to set aside to for vet purposes after bringing the puppy home. All dogs are not treated equally and as if they will remain in their care. Actually, only one dog (Palin) roams their property freely, all others are kept in a separate building on her farm. She will not show you this area. They did let us meet the father, but it was a quick visit. He walked out on a leash and returned to his kennel immediately. She does express a lot of concern regarding hips and heart, but that is it. She does not clean or groom for her dogs. She openly admitted that she shaves all but their head hair down to the skin once a year to remove loose hair, tangles and dirt. She was not home when we arrived to choose our puppy and in looking around her farm for her witnessed this. We received no vet paper work and it was not provided when asked for as youll read below. We did receive the AKC registration papers and a hand written list of the vaccines she personally provided. Verbal guarantees only. We
ignored all red flags and made a purchase based on emotion, convenience and price. A few hundred less than other breeders seemed worth it at the time. Her kind demeanor and quick apologies for the smaller concerns (ie lack of communication) carried us through to the purchase. However, cross her and she will quickly become defensive and unhelpful. Lastly, expect to pay cash, she stated this was for you find the emails below helpful.
To Forest View Farms - June 16
Sandi,
I wanted to write and let you know of a situation we've had with Wilson and that may be affecting all of the puppies and dogs in your kennel.
Two days ago, we took Wilson to the vet for his initial check and out of concern for his diarrhea that he has had since he's gotten to our home. The bad news is that he was diagnosed with Giardia and a bacterial infection that they believe stemmed from the Giardia over time. What we had thought was a reaction to the stress of a new home and a change of food was actually the side effects of his illness.
Needless to say this has been a very difficult week. Not only did Wilson need to be put onto medications, but Joey was also treated. Luckily, our other dog was with my parents who had been watching him while we got the new puppy adjusted to his home and into a routine. We had planned to pick him up this weekend, but decided to wait until Wilson and Joey have finished their medications and the house has been properly cleaned and sterilized.
In case you are unfamiliar with this parasite, it is very contagious and can be caught by humans.
This isn't typically or easily found using a microscope and can become costly to fix. Additionally, it's very difficult to get rid of. We've basically closed Wilson off from everyone and everything while we get him well. We only use the section of our yard that we originally used for him to go to the bathroom and Joey now goes to a new area completely. He was professionally groomed and we've taken all measures to ensure this does not spread any further.
Not only am I concerned about my family, but your family, the families of the new puppies and your entire kennel are at risk. I felt it necessary to tell you this.
This has happened and we can't go back, but I have to admit that we're both frustrated. The infection has made training very difficult and we've spent more than we would have like and that's even considering the fact that we visit a decently priced vet. The extra expense is hard to swallow when we add it all up, we've now exceeded the $200.00 marker for this and that's just the vet bills regarding the Giardia and infection (actual $238.80). We also have put ourselves and our other pets at risk.
The good news, other than that he checked out fine and in the long run I think he'll have a wonderful life. He's cute and stubborn and a nice addition to our family.
I'd appreciate hearing back from you. I wanted to not only tell you about this, but hope to work with you regarding the cost. It's a previous illness that was not disclosed. I'm not at all saying it was intentional, but it is highly unlikely that the diarrhea was a new symptom. I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'd appreciate the consideration. We stressed the importance of a healthy puppy when we talked with you prior to all of this.
If you have any questions, please let me know. Hope to talk soon.
From Forest View Farms - June 16
I wish you would have called me instead of rushing to the vet. Giardia and coccidia are two very common problems breeders are always facing. You can treat and treat and it seems when puppies leave for their new homes the stress of everything can bring it out. I would have sent you the necessary medication (costs about $20 through Revival Animal had you called me. The vet's love to tack on additional tests ya da ya da ya da, I wish you would have called me, this was a very easy fix, and don't get me wrong, I am glad you let me know. They can get giardia from drinking water out of a mud-puddle. My vet tells me that hopefully they will have something soon that will elliminate this. It is not really a parasite, as it is caused by more stress than anything else but I do appreciate you giving me a call.
Sandi
To Forest View Farms - Jun 16
Sandi,
With all due respect, any responsible pet owner should visit their own vet for an initial screening within the first week to ensure there were no pre-existing conditions. This was not something that we had the liberty to wait days to address. Calling you first when my dog is sick? You are a breeder and do not have the ability to diagnose anything over the phone. If this is something that is common in your puppies, why would you not start the puppy on this low cost medication prior to going home as a preventative measure? Or send us home with the medication, it is after all only $20 as you stated. At the very least, why would you not mention his loose stools and mention symptoms to watch. Especially considering how much we focused on the health. The signs were immediate and the bacterial infection proved that this wasn't something that had just happened. I understand that many kennels have this and it is highly contagious, but there are ways to try and control it. If you do not have the time required to properly sterilize your kennel and isolate the illness, which I know would be unrealistic, then you should focus on mass treatment of the puppies prior to allowing them into the general population. That seems realistic and fair to both your animals and your new dog owners.
Giardia is not caused by stress. It is an intestinal infection that is caused by the protozoan parasite giardia, which is the most common intestinal parasite that is found in humans. Dogs develop the infection by ingesting infectious offspring (cysts) that are shed in another animal's feces. The contamination can be from direct or indirect contact with the infected cysts (water for example). When stressed, you will see the results of the infection.
It seems clear that you do not feel the need to help with any of the expense. So, given the above information, I'm going to ask once more.
I look forward to hearing back from you.
From Forest View Farms - June 16
The last thing we told you before you left was, call us if you have any problems. I do not pay any vet bills. If you want me to pay you the $20 it would have cost me for the medication, I will gladly do that. Had you called, I wpuld have sent John to Columbus with the medication. We were in Columbus last week. With all due respect vets are in the business to make money and tend to rip people off
From Forest View Farms - June 16
If you are not happy with your puppy, please do not hesitate to bring him back, I will refund your full purchase price.
To Forest View Farms - June 16
Sandi,
Although I can appreciate your attempt at shifting blame, no matter how you look at it, this happened at your kennel on your watch and is something you were aware was an issue. When we went to pick him up, he had a VERY loose stool. Your quick reply was that he had just had an additional shot of deworming medication. Leading us to assume that was the cause.
This is an illness that you are very familiar with and you knew could be the true cause yet you willingly chose not to disclose this at the time of our purchase. He even stepped in his stool, and you simply wiped his leg in the grass. Something spread by feces and you let us hold him and introduce him to our family without even grabbing a wet paper towel in an attempt to clean him properly.
I am not sure if you were willing to send John or actually send the medication in the mail as you previously stated, but unless he is a licensed veterinarian why would I just assume either of you would know the true cause of his problem and just randomly give this sick puppy medication? That would be irresponsible and that's how I feel you are handling this situation. We picked up the puppy on Saturday of last week, one week ago, why not tell us or give us the medication then instead of sending your husband down the very next day to resolve the problem? We've only had him a week!
I am very familiar with our conversation and surprised you'd imply otherwise. You did say to call you if there was a problem. You also said if there was any problem you would stand behind your product and work with us. That you didn't want a dog to come back. My dog needed true medical attention, not a thought up diagnosis based on opinion or suspicion. I had every intention of notifying you of the problem, but if there's a problem that needs immediate attention, you turn to a
professional. This is the smart and proper way to address an issue. Your argument makes no sense, not if you truly care about the well being of your animals and customers.
One thing is clear, you do not pay any vet bills. I think your statement is spot on and 100% agree with you. Your offer of $20.00 is a true slap in the face and could not even cover a fecal exam by a licensed professional. Giving Wilson back is the last thing we would do in this situation. Not only have we grown attached, but we are fixing his problem and would never purposely put him back into the atmosphere that made him sick to begin with. He'll get better. We're going to give him a great life and would never consider giving him up. We've all been exposed, our house and yard have been exposed, now we'll have to deal with it.
We can agree, some vets do tend to rip people off, but one should never throw stones. Your resolution proves not far off.
In all honesty, I'm sad to say that am not surprised by your reaction and response to this. I feel we made an emotional purchase and that (in looking back) there were warning signs that we ignored regarding your operation. I sent the email at the beginning discussing a refund of our deposit and to cancel our arrangement, your reply. Not even the total lack of professionalism, but your communication technique overall, ignoring questions as though I didn't even ask them. We traveled 90 minutes to choose our puppy at an agreed time and you were not home. You didn't even have the decency to reply to my emails, texts or phone calls when I was looking for you. Showing up 45 minutes later with no apology or explanation? Even then we thought it best to walk away, but immediately you grabbed the puppies and how do we say no then? You had impeccable timing when it came to service failures. And thinking back to the original dog we selected. Poor guy, clearly had what appeared to be scar tissue build up on his eye and not only did you not know it was there, but the way you dismissed it. You even stated he could possibly be blind, yet treated us as though we were over thinking, overreacting to something that was so trivial. As if you forgot how much money we were actually willing to spend on this. We put our trust into you. Seems the only party who hasn't been committed to this entire transaction has been Forest View Farms.
Be assured, I will do everything within my power to keep others from making my same mistakes. Had I known what I know now, I would have willingly paid more to deal with a company farther away who cared more about the overall well being of their puppies.
There is no need for a reply. It is my sincere hope that you seriously consider reducing the size of your operation to something more manageable.
From Forest View Farms - Jun 16
Please bring the puppy back, and I will refund the puurchase price plus ypur vet bill, at this point I do not want you to have one of my puppies. If ypu do not want to do that then do not email me again. I do not want to fight with you, I do not need to be insulted by you. I have been breeding newfies since 1977. I know more than some vets.
From Forest View Farms - June 16
Did you ever think he got sick at your house. I find it odd no one else has called. Did yoi change foods, is he given all he wants, are you soaking it, I could aske you countless questions. Stress is an issue with giardia. Call up 10 vets that have been around amd they will all give you varying opinions on the subject. Believe me giardia is a concern with all vets and breed we s alike.
From Forest View Farms - June 16
If you heard me tell you to call if there was a problem then why didnt you. I am not in the habit of giving people blank checks. If there would have been a real problem I would have taken the dog to my own vet. Blind puppy what are you talking about. My daghter has what they call floaters in her eyes, that is what they likened it to. The gentleman that got him couldnt have cared less. You had your choice, you chose a different one what does that have to do with anything. I think you like to make mountains out of mole hills. The amount your vet charged you is highway robbery
From Forest View Farms - June 16
Your letter makes no sense, asking for a refund of a deposit when was this. For your information at the vets when the puppies were checked, the vet did not even notice it I had to point it out. Scar tissue build up, are you a vet. I offered to give you the vets number so ypu could call her ypurself, you declined. I did apologize for being late, I had a family emergency, which is no ones bussiness but ours. I have answered allyour questions whenever asked, I am a very busy person and I do not carry my phone around with me 24/7. I find that very rude. The next time you buy a dog, I hope you get one that the breeder hasnt worked as hard as I have to get good healtby lines. You have a wonder ful puppy and all you have done is bashed me because you didnt do the one thing we asked you to do in the first place Call Us First, so I guess you are the one who tried to shift the blame.in the future if you need to discuss this further, pick up your phone and just call me, these emails are very insulting.
To Forest View Farms - June 17
Sandi,
As I said in my email, I was not looking for a reply.
This puppy no longer belongs to you. Not only have we been constantly working to train him since he has come home and nurse him to a healthy state, but we have no intentions of returning to your location ever again. You have wasted enough of our time. Wilson belongs to us and will not be returned. My guarantee (in writing) to you is that we will do everything in our power to be sure he lives a healthy and loving life. That is a promise. We bought him fare and square, he's been in
safe keeping ever since. Even you yourself wrote that we would be a good home, what makes you think that has changed? I may not have the receipt for the additional $800.00 I gave you as the payoff amount (as you preferred cash and money orders for tax purposes) to prove this, but I have kept every single one of our emails and would be happy to provide them if there is any question of where he belongs.
I did reach out to you (which I discussed in the previous emails), but I consulted a professional first. Why would any reputable breeder be so offended that someone did not hang on their every word and look to their vet that they trusted for a complete health evaluation? Wilson wasn't just an investment. He is family now and I'm going to handle his health the best and most efficient way possible. A self proclaimed expert does not count in my book no matter how long you have been in their profession. My vet is who I trust and who will be Wilson's vet from here on out. My vet proved there was a problem. How can any other vet fight something found during a test with clear symptoms of his diagnosis? Would you have preferred we run a second test with your vet also? A second opinion? And what happens to the puppy in the mean time? He just suffers the side effects? Possibly die of dehydration in the mean time?
The only person dragging this out is you. I told the truth, all of it. Everything I said was fact. You're upset? We're on the receiving end. I asked for what I felt was fare and you denied my request. The end. Don't say you apologized when you didn't and please don't lie about what we discussed. You said you were at the farmers market. We did not question that or look for extra explanation. We did not care where you were, but we would have liked an apology. Common courtesy, fact is you were not there when you said you would be. No note, no call, nothing. Just us standing on your farm alone for 45 minutes figuring out if we should leave after making the drive. That should not be offensive to anyone but us. You made it personal and about yourself, which we did not even imply. We were planning to leave and were discussing getting the deposit back when you showed up. You said, one minute, and immediately ran back to get the puppies. There was not one word uttered about why you were late until right before we left when you said you were at the farmers market.
You can change any detail you would like. One thing you can't change is fact. Giardia is what it is, the definition I gave you is supported by a number of animal health websites in addition to what my vet had told us. You knew this was a problem and chose to do nothing about it.
Just because you have been in business so long does not mean you are following good business practices. Others have had issues with your puppies also. Maybe not from this litter, but after a
simple web search and we found negative reviews. And it's early, give it time. They have no clue their dog may be sick. For all we know, they could be running tests and dealing with the same issues as we speak. That is precisely why I wrote asking you to notify them.
What you should truly be offended by is the way you chose to handle the situation. Not by what I have written. I do not feel you have handled this properly and I'm sure others will feel the same. It's all dollars and cents. I never asked for a blank check, I asked you to take responsibility for something you did not disclose. You couldn't even spare the $20 medication for the puppy when we picked him up, this should be a preventative measure for something so contagious that you are aware is an issue in your kennel. I personally plan to look into the Puppy Mill Bill... Contagious dogs being sold and kept together will not be allowed. This is something that upsets people when they are not told, this isn't right.
In regards to the living conditions of my house and the chance he caught it here... You should research the incubation period of Giardia. This puppy came to our home sick. Sick from day one as I had said previously.in addition, this is a question you should have asked prior to allowing one of you beloved animals into our home. Most breeders do.
I have a very valid argument and have no desire to talk to you over the phone. If anything, I prefer email for legal purposes. You've established with us a history for distorting facts. My father always told me the dirt always comes out in the wash. You've distorted much of the truth, that will catch up with you. Please save the lies and arguments for someone else far more gullible.
From Forest View Farms - June 17
One question you continue to avoid is when ypu were told to call us first why didnt you?
Ypu exected us to give ypu a blank check, all the uppies were vet checked, given a clean bill of health. You have exagerated everything. You have been offerrd a solution, a fair solution. No, you just want to complain over a very fixable problem, that your vet made you pay quad rupple for. I am keeping my emails too. You have been offered full reimbursement plus payment for the vet bills. You have chose to keep the puppy end of story. Bottom line, your vet ripped you off and you want me to take care of your mistakes. That day when the puppy went to the bathroom, it was you who suggestedhis stool was lose from the worming not me, just tl set the story straight. I did not force ypu to buy tbe puppy. You could have changed ypu mind at any time. Vets do not breed dogs, so don. T even go there.
From Forest View Farms - June 17
One more thing, you were told to CALL the day before, which you didn't do, to remind me, where we live the service is not that good.
To Forest View Farms - June 17
Sandi,
Could you please send us the veterinarian's record's from the visit that you refer to below so we can add it to his health records? That was not included with our original paperwork.
I will not rehash previous emails and continue to fight with you. Simply reread what I have written in full detail if are curious as to why I did not call first. Explanation has been provided for all items you continue to argue multiple times.
From Forest View Farms - June 17
Either bring the puppy back or stop emailing me
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