Once you read the initial opening statement or two, you'll want to scroll to the bottom and read the emails/communication in reverse order... That way the flow will make more sense. I merely copied the emails in my report.
Lastly, I came back to usacomplaints.com and see aNOTHER report on Dolphin Automotive (Ebay username = CARSCARSCARS67), so THAT encouraged me to enter the complaints here on this site as well.
THESE CROOKS HAVE GOT TO BE STOPPED, and this gets posted in hopes that this (and the listing on another site) will help expidite the matter. I've also contacted other media as of today in hopes the matter will be looked into further.
Here's the story...
Beyond what you'll read below, there are/were additional items not even mentioned in my initial complaint to CARSCARSCARS67 and the BBB in their area. Let me note a few of those things, and then I'll post my email to the BBB, to CARSCARSCARS67, and each of their responses. 1st a few things that were screwed up that were NOT mentioned:
* Passenger door does not lock/unlock when you toggle the electric switch on the drivers side... You have to manually unlock that door.
* Radio gets louder/softer on it's own and doesn't seek or scan stations well at all... It will scan and never stop on a station
* The convertible "sim" top is worn badly
* There is a leak in the window washer fluid recepticle and it will not hold fluid at all
* The small plastic piece that hides wires that runs from the mirror into the headliner is broken
* Cup holder at the center console is broken
* The car has been repainted (obvious overspray in portions, and line of new paint visible when you look at/under any and all rubber seals around the doors and glass
* The logo, "Sedan DeVille" is 1/2 broken off on 1 side of car (I might have mentioned this in the initial write up?)
* Car will not heat up when at an idle... Thermostat is probably the problem... At least the cheapest problem I hope!)
* Passenger window (electric windows) has gotten stuck several times
* The center stop light in the rear window is out
... I could probably think of more, but this should give you enough to steer clear from these crooks. With that said, here is the following emails and responses that will give you yet a FURTHER look into the scam operation they are running. You'll want to read them in reverse order, as the original emails are included with each response given:
The only reason for the time lapse with this post on this site, is I just "stumbled" on this site this evening... It's late, and hey... Why not get the truth out reGARDLESS of when the scam took place!
Cheri...
You note (standard response to any complaint), "We have contacted the company on your behalf in an attempt to reach a mutually acceptable resolution". I am out for no "resolution" to the completed transaction. I was alerting you to a very inaccurate description of the said vehicle which was in essence a description of false, innacurate, and a blatent misrepresentation of the said vehicle. If you'll take the time to read again my concerns, you'll notice that their response made NO mention of the said complaints, ie: knowingly had the vehicle not represented properly, failure to note the sagging headliner, severly cracked/dry rotting seats, cracked wheel hubs, etc... in other words, they once again aVOIDED the issues and truth of the matter.
Here we have a company that KNOWINGLY represents a vehicle nowhere CLOSE to their said description. Secondly, they are guilty of high pressure business tactics to the point of intimidation. I don't know what the outcome would have been had I been the one to secure the vehicle, but certainly different than the outcome that followed.
I'll not go to the trouble of filing a written (paper form) complaint. I know I am not the 1st to complain against the company knowing that other reports have been filed with BBB and there is a pending law suit against them as well. I'd love to see PrimeTime TV or a similar program do a featured segement on these folks to expose the type of sham that exists.
In their responses to those on Ebay who had left "-" feedback for them, they were quick to make statements like, "Another failed extortion attempt", etc. I seek no monies nor any resolution from these folks.
Let me however take the time to rebut Mary's comments below to my complaint as some of her comments make no sense and are inaccurate. With the following, I'll leave it at that unless further comments from the company need addressing. Her comments are listed and underlined in bold, and my response to that nonsense will be noted in bold red type:
Regards
Hello Cheri
I know the e mail said we do not have to reply but we always like to.in all our years we have never seen such a situation like this. This woman came in and bought a 12 year old car in person. She looked at it for hours... ExUSE me?!?! Hours!?!?! Yet aNOTHER gross S-t-r-e-t-c-hing of the truth. How about less than 1/2 hour to be exact.
Several things... She wanted to look it over good never having seen the vehicle, and 2ndly, she called me on my cell phone while I was parking a 75' vehicle and I had to call her back while we were on the phone, else she would have been gone beFORE 30 minutes! And was on the phone with her husband talking with him in detail... She observed only the few items I noted in my initial complaint and DID NOT see the sagging headliner (like I'm sure YOU were aware of but failed to mention in your description on the web), nor the broken a/c vent for the rear seat area, nor the cracked hub covers, nor the loose drivers door panel, etc...
ALL of which I'd guess you were aware of at the time of listing but chose to NOT be upfront and honest in your description and present a vehicle that was "showroom" in quality! The entire time. When we asked her if there was a problem she said that "she thought the car would be even nicer than the pictures". We told her several times that if she was not happy that she did not have to take the car... My wife when she 1st called me felt you folks were getting nervous because she was trying her best to go over the car (BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTION), but as I already addressed this issue I'll remind you again... She was out a full day already getting down there. #2 Was out the expense of travel #3. Knew you were not offering to pay her expense home and the expenses already incurred to get there.
You folks do the "intimidation" act..."If you don't want it you don't have to buy it maam". But she said that "she wants it". Then she said she wanted a full tank of gas and then she will take it... I asked my wife, "Did they have gas in the tank for you to get on down the road?" She said there was only a few gallons in the tank and I told her to ask for some gas. The other cars I'd purchased over Ebay included gas in the tank from each dealer. When she asked about getting gas she was told, "We'll fill your tank up if you leave up positive feedback WHILE YOU'RE HERE" Ha... AFRAID there would be negative feedback once I viewed the car in South Carolina.
Intimidating a female and pressuring someone trying to take advantage of them by backing them in a corner... A shame. The trip back to SC is over a 10 hour drive and I told my wife to just ask for $25 instead of them taking their own sweet time and getting an employee to go get gas, when she could get on the road a whole lot quicker and get gas at HER convenience to save time. Hey... I'm not even sure the $25 would get a full tank... I just threw out the $25 figure for her to ask of them... Again, I was parking a 75' vehicle and didn't have the time to "negotiate" gas when my main concern was getting my wife home without staying under the pressure while at the dealership. After all, when she got there she was told, "If we would have known you were coming..." In other words, the car wasn't quite ready... They had to put the "final touches" on the car before she actually drove off.
When we asked her for the feedback, as we new she was trying to pull a move... Lol... WHAT is "pulling a move" mean?!?!?!? You're making no sense my friend she said sure but she said she does not want the full tank of gas but rather the" $25 in cash and then she will be happy". We gave it to her, she bought the car, she signed the as is, she told her husband what she was doing, he got on the phone and said this was a fair trade... I got on the phone with Bob to confirm the $25 in cash so she could proceed home... Nothing was said about a "fair deal". Both of us knew the car would be inspected a little closer once she got home, that's only natural. The ONLY WAY my wife could have left with any gas in the tank was to LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK WHILE SHE WAS THERE!!!
Had she left withOUT leaving feedback and I gave them a negative feedback, they'd have resorted to their ole' "Trying extortion but failed... Drove off happy... What's her problem?" kind of routine response they give. She then paid us and then she took the cash for the gas and drove off. I think it is extremely nervy to then call us up and complain about the "condition" of the car. When she got home. Both of us knew the car would be inspected a little closer once she got home, that's only natural, and you were so fearful I'd find the issues she did not point out to me over the phone that you were wanting to insure your " " feedback WHILE SHE WAS THERE! She also made it home safely with the car some 800 miles with no issues. THE ISSUE never WAS mechanical or reliabilty... Don't confuse the issue or invent something!!! Don't try to divert the real issue... Forget your spin... The "ISSUE" is FALSE ADVERTISING, MISREPRESENTATION of the item!!! If the car was not up to there standards when they came to see it then they should have never bought it... Already addressed this nonsensical statement
We are done with her and, us as well, do not want to ever do business with people like that again of COURSE you wouldn't... You don't want to be held accountable for your actions
Thank you and let us know if you need anything
Mary
Manager
Dolphin Auto
954 974 3960
Original Message
From: Cheri Stillman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26 1:56 PM
Subject: Mr. Kevin
BBB SERVING SOUTHEAST FLORIDA
2924 N Australian Ave., West Palm Beach, FL 33407
561-842-1918 FAX 561-845-7234 info@seflorida. BBB.org
May 26
Mrs. Mary Dieppa
Dolphin Automotive Wholesale
1982 NW 44 Street, Bay H & G
Pompano Beach, FL 33064
Dear Mrs. Dieppa:
As you know, the Better Business Bureau operates as a service to businesses in an effort to help resolve disputes between them and their customers. Enclosed is a copy of a consumer's correspondence sent to the Better Business Bureau concerning your company.
On occasion a consumer may wish to make their experience with a company known without actually requesting third-party mediation. This correspondence appears to be such a case. We are bringing it to your attention so that you may be aware of the circumstances that prompted the customer to contact us.
While it would be in your best interest to contact the consumer and acknowledge receipt of this information, this office does not require a response from you in this instance. However, if requested, we will be happy to assist you in communicating with your customer.
Your support of the Better Business Bureau is appreciated.
Sincerely,
Cheri Stillman
Dispute Resolution Specialist
[email protected]
Original Message — Subject: Complaint
Date: Wed, 26 May 11:31: 58 -0400
From: Chris Hubbard
Organization: Better Business Bureau
To: Cheri
Original Message — Subject: Email adress correction & concern/complaint...
Date: Tue, 25 May 16:55: 22 -0400
From: Kevin
To:
Below is the email message I just sent to Dolphin Automotive. Complete contact information is:
Dolphin Automotive Wholesale Group, Inc.
1982 NW 44 St. Bay H & G
Pompano Beach, Fl. 33064
954-974-3960 954-974-3951 (fax)
They sell under the username on Ebay as, "carscarscars67". If you're not familiar with Ebay, the link to what they sell is, http://cgi6. Ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI. Dll? ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=carscarscars67&completed=0&sort=3&since=-1
Their response to buyers who might have left them "-" feedback is "FAILED EXTORTION" as if people tried to extort them. I've emailed Ebay because the issue (s) might be more "web community" related, but they offer sales locally as well in addition to items sold to folks all around the country. Your BBB rep on the phone y'day indicated that all issues with them were satisfied, so I know there's been other complaints registered against the firm. I only am sending this to you to alert you to yet another business in your area that needs some closer scrutiny as to ethical business practices, in hopes others don't get fooled by the misleading advertising that goes on with them.
Here is the email I sent to Dolphin...
Dolphin Automotive Ownership:
We just took delivery of the '93 DeVille that was listed on Ebay (and locally?). The item number was 2478963955... I'm certain you remember, as my wife was the one who paid for the vehicle and picked it up just yesterday, Monday 5/24/04. Also in speaking with Bob (an employee), he remembers me from 2 previous purchases through Ebay when he worked for Weekendsun. You might have worked with them at that time as well? While I'm not angry to the point of being revengeful, I need to get this email off to you & let you know my concerns.
Several things need to be noted upon viewing the vehicle for myself here in Columbia, SC...
The vehicle is NOT as advertised. You noted in your description, "near flawless Tan supple leather interior"..."The interior is equally as clean and still looks like when It was new".
Does a new car interior have the drivers side leather seat all cracked and dry rotted? Is the seat belt on the drivers side of a new automobile soiled and stained from the factory? Oh, I'll remind you... I'm the one who emailed you when you ran the ad the 1st time asking you about the seat belt if it was soiled and could not be cleaned, or was it overlooked in your "detailing". You'll recall that you didn't respond to my email.
Does a new auto have the rear A/C vent installed with broken louvers, being unable to control the air flow? This one does. With a new car, don't the front seats lock in place on a 2 door and you'd be required to use the release button on the back side of each seat to enable passengers to enter the rear seat? The answer is of course "yes", but BOTH sides do not lock/function properly.
There is the issue of a sagging headliner on the passenger side about the size of a basketball... No mention of this in your ad, but rather you state, "it is a True Showroom Clean" car. There is also a hole in the headliner the size of a matchhead and a few small stains as well on the drivers side... You failed to mention that. Oh... You know/knew all well the REAL condition of the car but chose not to mention this and other items. We both know why.
You'll give your standard response, "But this is a used car... It's a '93". Wait... YOU stated the interior "still looks like when it was new"."New" is not relative nor subjective is it? I've purchased several new vehicles over time and know the difference between new and damaged/broken/etc.
Let's move to the exterior and see how well YOUR description matches with the actual car...
On a new car, is the marquee/logo 1/2 busted off? On the passenger side of the car where the "Coupe DeVille" is glued to the car in raised chrome like lettering, the "Ville" is busted off. You forgot... Wait, you didn't forGET to mention that, but you chose to NOT mention that.
You state, "near flawless Tan exterior"..."The exterior is extremely clean as I already stated with no dents and door dings and the finish just looks amazing". Your statement "a True Showroom Clean rare Florida find" I would guess pertains to both the inside and outside of the vehicle right? The words "near flawless" are subjective, but...
The drivers door lower exterior panel is loose (a broken rivet or something?) causing it to hang loose and rattle when the door is being open/closed... Both front lug wheel covers are cracked all the way across through the middle. There ARE some nicks, but you said no "dents" or "dings" so I guess you covered yourself on that one huh? While the overall finish is nice, there are a few scratches that are noticeable that you failed to mention along with some actual chips in the paint.
You see, integrity is the name of the game, and you folks don't play by those rules. Each of your auctions are pretty much the same verbage with merely a change in the actual item.
How about this suggestion as to how you COULD have... SHOULD have listed the ad..."While extremely clean & well cared for, the drivers seat shows noticable signs of wear with cracking & slight soiling. We'd suggest a leather technician to bring it up to the condition like the rear seats, because the rear seats are like new! Please see the detailed photo of the drivers seat for clarification. Also note the photograph of the headliner... It is coming unglued in this section and with attention by a detail shop, it can probably be satisfied without fear of worsening". The detailed pics should give you a true picture of the vehicle, but please call if there are any further questions/concerns you might have, etc... You get my drift... An accurate description. Does a person need to ask the SPECIFIC question as to, are there any holes in the headliner? Is the rear vent mounted and operating properly? Are all hub covers cracked? Are there any noticeable scratches on the rims? Hey... I asked the simple question in my email about the soiled SEATBELT and got no response. I think you ignore folks who might want information and hope someone will just buy your description, hook, line and sinker. Hey... Fool me once shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on ME.
I would have liked to have been there at point of sale, but as you know my schedule prohibited that from happening. I had not been home in 14 days and had to have my wife make arrangements to secure the vehicle.
You folks BUY your rating and I'm sure you're aware of that too. The law suit against you folks I don't know the details of, but I'd guess it's right along these same lines... False advertising. You'd respond, "But I told you if you didn't want the vehicle you didn't have to take it". Come on... Do you think I fell off the back of a turnip truck or something?!?!
My wife (who's not well versed in transactions as such) took a train to pick the vehicle up... A long ride to say the least. You think she's wanting to #1 Walk from the deal and pay for a train ride back home after paying for the transportation to your location? #2 Take another full day to even GET back missing scheduled events (work, birthdays, etc)? I'm sure there are even men who would be intimidated to say "no" at that point... I mean, you know someone isn't going to pay for a plane trip to Florida from wherever and turn around and go home because your vehicle didn't meet their expectations or match your advertising. You get 'em over the barrel. She wouldn't even think of negotiating if something like this were to come up.
Again... I had not seen my wife for 14 days and had to send her to secure the vehicle. She was only doing what she thought would please me because I saw in the ad the above noted description..."like new", etc. The few things she noted over the phone while still on your property were minor, but upon viewing the car once she got home these additonal items were noted.
So what does a person do? Here again is the big con..."Give me a positive rating WHILE YOU'RE HERE" and I'll get you some gas". You feel that if you've gained the " " feedback that everything is fine, right? You've gotta love the fact that you list all your auctions "private", because THEN you can't have other Ebay members email other members warning them of the scam you're running. I'm going to make a guess about this... Could it be that the car was relisted because the person who won the auction the 1st time on this vehicle felt it was nowhere near the description and he/she decided to walk away?
I agreed on the phone (after my wife tried to describe to me the car) to give you a " " rating, but once I see the vehicle it's worse than she indicated as she didn't notice the non-locking seat backs, broken A/C vent, etc. She was stressed at having to make the final decision... Felt pressured... Wanted to get home. She knew when she called me that you too were getting nervous by the fact she had called me and was worried about the whole deal.
When I emailed you when you 1st listed the car inquiring about the dirty seat belt, I also offered you $3200 for the vehicle as you encouraged people to do such... No response. No mention about the seat belt, or nothing like, "Sir, we believe the $3200 is a bit low for this quality vehicle, etc..."
I've now purchased 7 vehicles through Ebay counting this one from Dolphin just yesterday, and 1 additional vehicle over the web through a dealer who doesn't sell through Ebay. You note in your desription, "I am extremely familiar with Cadillac's and whoever is buying this car is looking for one in Mint condition because this is the style they like and they want it clean". I too am very familiar with Cadillacs... Of the 8 cars purchased over the web, this '93 now makes the 5th Cadillac... Nearly 63% of the cars I've bought online have been Cadillacs, and while no car has been "perfect", you can bet they were ADVERTISED in much more accurate manner than the '93 I just got from you.
You note the word "mint"... Even with KBB, NADA & Edmunds would not have you list this car under "excellent" condition needing no repairs/attention. From the Kelley Blue Book site this is noted:
Excellent
"Excellent" condition means that the vehicle looks great, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. It should pass a smog inspection. The engine compartment should be clean, with no fluid leaks. The paint is glossy and the body and interior are free of any wear or visible defects. There is no rust. The tires are the proper size and match and are new or nearly new. A clean title history is assumed. This is an exceptional vehicle.
Good
"Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. The paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems.in states where rust is a problem, this should be very minimal, and a deduction should be made to correct it. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A clean title history is assumed. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail; however major reconditioning should be deducted from the value. Most recent model cars owned by consumers fall into this category.
.
"Excellent" is the best rating KBB suggests, but as you can see, the car DOES need reconditoning... There IS wear (both in/out) and there ARE visible defects. WIth that in mind, the '93 could not fall under that category, but you chose to list it as such
Only 1 other time did I feel I was mislead by false advertising and brought that to the dealers attention. He by the way is no longer on Ebay... There were far too many who had the same experience and the "-" feedback confirmed to the Ebay officials that the feedback was indeed true and accurate unlike his listings. The person might have resurfaced under a different name, but it will catch up with him sooner or later if that's the case.
I've bought 2 Cadillacs from the same dealer who I felt dealt with me in a very open and honest manner. You know that because I'm sure Bob mentioned that to you, as Bob was the same one I dealt with when he worked with Steve at Weekendsun.
While I had my wife note in the feedback "hope to buy more", it won't happen again.
Regards,
Kevin
lexington, South Carolina
U.S.A.
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