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Complaint / Review
Tinsel Town Shih Tzus
Ripoff, Just try and get a straight answer from them

All I wanted was a puppy or two to love. I just asked for a price and this is what I encountered. I have included every email from start to finish. I have not edited anything. I can't believe how I was treated. I am so glad I have decided to go with another breeder as I feel I can not trust anything these women say. I have also found out just recently that the ad in which I found this breeder has a picture of a darling puppy but that this puppy is not even her puppy. She did not birth her or even ever own her. Yet she is advertising it as if it is one of her puppies.in addition, she states she has certain breeding lines and doesn't even own any dogs from that line. As you will see, she has statements all over her website that she refuses to back up and then blames me that she didn't back it up. What was I to do? I just believed what she had voluntarily put in writing.
Here are the unedited emails between us. They are in reverse order from the latest to the first. You may want to start at the bottom.

I see that you have taken off of your website about sizing and pricing at 5 weeks but it still says and again I quote: This is a good friend's litter, that Tazz sired, if interested please contact Julie or Craig for prices and specific info on pup: Also the exact sizes are on the website just as they have been for a week now so I don't understand what the big problem with giving me a price was and is. Why do you continue to say all these things on your website and then give someone a hard time. Also you don't think you were evading the price question but if you would read the all past emails I had asked for a price at least four times. Can you see why I felt this way with this and everything you stated on your website?
Ora

You keep comming back to the statement that you did not know what puppy I wanted but and I quote:"Just an FYI though, the male you are considering I have 2 other people that have been inquiring about him in the past 24 hours." from your own words in your reply to me that you did know which puppy I was interested in. So please do not bring this point up again. Also, if you weren't sure of the "true size" you shouldn't have posted the sizes on the website. You should have waited until you were sure. This is not my fault to believe what you had put in writing. Also, about the personality— I am very interested in a good personality but at 4 and 1/2 weeks puppies don't have much of a personality yet and are just comming into theirs so what else was I to go on for the time being. You should know this as you have had litters before.

About—Also, to get a general idea of the pricing, the Website already has that information under the button "Sizes & Prices". If you would have read your own website you would see that it says:
Sizes & Prices
Please contact me for
sizes and pricing.
$800.00 - $1500.00

Am I just supposed to pick a price that I like as long as it falls in between $800 and $1500? According to your statement in this last email I guess this is what I was supposed do to.

Ora

Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

I can somewhat see your point Ora, but there seems to be a lack of communication about what was needed on both sides.

1) I was waiting to find out which puppy you were wanting specifically. That is the simple reason why I did not give you a price of a puppy. I also did not want you to assume the one price I gave you was for another puppy. That can definitely lead to contractual arguments we would like stear clear from. You then indicated in your last email that you wanted pricing for both puppies. That was the first indication to me of you being interested in both puppies. I have never been asked for the pricing of two or more of the puppies at once. That is just unusual for me. I am not a breeder who does this for my lively hood and so I do not give out mass pricing. I am not interested in just selling the puppies for money for anyone who is willing to buy them so I can support myself. I breed the puppies for quality results and for the experience itself and take this very personally. I want to make sure they go to a great home where they will be taken care of and loved. This is evident in the fact that we still talk to many of the people who have purchased our puppies from our previous litter and that we have people who come back to purchase another puppy after buying one from a previous litter. That is also the reasoning behind why I focused on a specific puppy instead of a price list. People we have sold to have only contacted us about the puppy they are interested in, not just which one from the litter fits their pricing model or the smallest one. They ask us about their personality and focus on the look of the puppy. That seemed to be the break down in communication between both of us. I simply had a different perspective than you on what information you were needing and you in what information you were expecting from me. Could you buy more than one? Of course. It is just not a common request for puppies of the same litter and was not understood in that manner.

2) Because the puppies have just entered the 5th week, I also needed to weigh the puppies again to verify the size of the smaller one, especially since you were so specific about "guaranteeing the size". I wanted to make sure it was as true to size as possible and be sensitive to the situation you indicated your friend was in. I hope you can see why I was being careful to not give you incorrect information and why I went to the effort to have more exact weights for you specifically. After weighing the puppies and seeing your inquiry of the weights of all the puppies, I included all of the information. That seemed to be the mistake though, as much to my chagrin, you accused me of "[selling] a puppy out from under you". I should have only given you the size of the two available puppies so you did not jump to any conclusions., but it was a rude comment nonetheless based on the perspective that you felt slighted by me not offering you the smallest puppy first. Offended? Yes. It was a pretentious attitude in every way. You seemed to think that you were the only person who had spoken to me about any of our puppies and wanted to put a deposit down, when 3 of the puppies have been spoken for since the 1st week they were born, (all to buyers of our previous litters). Also, to get a general idea of the pricing, the Website already has that information under the button "Sizes & Prices". But I understand your confusion, because we again return to the mobias loop we were originally in, where you then wanted specific and exact pricing on all the puppies and not just one.

Was it an inconvience to do what I did? No. I wanted to make sure you knew I was willing to get you what you needed, i.E., specific weights for the puppies.

Your "References comment", again another poor statement to try to offend us.

I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot and wish you the best in your search.

Regards,

Julie

Original Message

Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:49: 11 -0700

You only have two puppies available. It shouldn't have been a problem to give me the prices on both. Why should I have to pick one to get a price? I liked them both but price is an issue. You told me to go to Tinseltown Shih Tzus and see the litter but I had been to the website and this is how I got your email. It states - and I have copied it directly off on the website— Prices will be available at 5 weeks old when we know what sizes they will be. I understand that you were not going to price the puppies until you had sized them but the website clearly states under each available puppy:
—This little guy is going to be 6-7 lbs. He is such a wiggle worm and wants to explore
everything&
—This cute boy is the Pick of the litter. He is going to be 3-5 lbs. Maybe just over 5lbs. He
is so very sweet and will crawl over and rest his head on your lap and just cuddle.

You said that you would price your puppies when you sized them and you had sized them so I don't think I am out of line in expecting you to be able to give me a price on both puppies. I was actually interested in buying both but I wanted to make sure I had enough money to pay for both before I committed myself to you. I don't think this is unreasonable. As I wanted the puppies that I buy to be friends and brothers would have been wonderful. I am sorry I didn't know I was only allowed to buy one and only one.

If you were not ready to price your puppies you should have just said so I really wouldn't have minded waiting. But when you state these things on your website and then you won't give me a price. Can you see where I could feel that you were not being up front with me? You are not the only breeder I have been in contact with. I have been looking for a while and I just want someone to finally back up what they say without a problem. I guess you and your partner are on going to do that. You can get offended all you want but I think I have proven my point. Don't say something on your website unless you are willing to back up. What you have stated on your website is completely misleading. I am glad I have decided to go with another breeder because if you are misleading on this item I seriously doubt how your correct sizing will be and if you would back up your health guarantee at all.

It also states on the website—

Please investigate the breeder you are buying a puppy
from. Get references, a good breeder will give these to
you if you just ask. Too many people are getting ripped
of because they do not take the time to do this..

I guess I should have asked for references from the beginning and could have saved us both a whole lot of wasted time.

Sorry for the inconvenience, Ora

Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

The last thing I am trying to do is pressure you about buying a puppy, you just said that I sold one out from under you in the last email. So, I thought I would let you know that I have had others inquiring so that if someone else wants him, you did not assume that I sold this one out from under you ALSO. I have been everything but evasive. You never told me which puppy you wanted and that is what the price depends on. It is difficult to give a price if you don't even know what you wanted. I am not dishonest and have nothing to hide... I even went to the vet today for you and got the weights, so I do not appreciate your comments. Good luck in finding your canine companion... Julie

Original Message
Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:14: 28 -0700

You keep evading the question about price but now you are pressuring me about buying the puppy. This is very unprofessional! I don't know what you are trying to hide but I think I will just pass and work with someone that is more honest and up front. By the way your puppy is not the only one I was looking at either. There are plenty of breeders in the USA who have teacups and they are answering my questions without all the hassel.
Good Luck with your litter,
Ora
Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

The one that is 15 oz was sold at birth... It is a female and I had someone from the last litter that wanted a sibling (the pup they bought from us from the last litter is 3 & 1/2 pounds at 9 months old). The 2 that are available are 1 lb 2 oz and 1 lb 10 oz, sorry for the misunderstanding. If you go to www.tinseltownshihtzus.com you can see all of the litter-and the 2 available males. The others are in the placed puppies section. Just an FYI though, the male you are considering I have 2 other people that have been inquiring about him in the past 24 hours. Thanks Julie

Original Message
Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:32: 27 -0700

How can he be sold already when you won't even give me a price? I have been asking for a price for this whole time.
Ora
Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

The one that is 15 oz is sold. The one I sent the picture of is 1 lb 2 oz (just 3 oz more).

Original Message
Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:25: 20 -0700

Thank you for getting these for me. The one you sent the picture of—is he the one that weighs 15oz.? What was the weight of the other available puppy?
Ora
Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

OK, I just got back from the vet... The weights are as follows... 1 lb 11 oz, 1 lb 10 oz, 1 lb 8 oz, 1 lb 2 oz (boy that I sent the picture of), and 15 oz. Thanks Julie

Original Message
Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:39: 57 -0700

I am retired and only have grandchildren who visit once in a while. The youngest grandchild is ten. I don't have any other dogs but would love a tiny Shih Tzu. I don't want to breed. I just want someone to carry around and be my best friend as I live alone. I have a friend that has two Shih Tzus and I just love them. If you don't know the weights of the puppies how do you know how much they will be as adults? How did you determine the size? My friend's dogs are great but one is big and the other is tiny. She said that she was told that the big one was going to be very tiny and he got to be quite big. She told me the mom and the dad were very small. Dad was about 5 lbs. And the mom was about 6 lbs. I just don't want to make that same mistake. Also, Did you have a price for me?
Ora
Original Message
Sent: Thursday, November 11,2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

The mom is 7 pounds and the dad is 5 & 1/2 pounds. I can tell you that the smallest male will range from 4-6 pounds and the larger male will be from 6-8 pounds. These are the only 2 pups left available. I can not guarantee the size it would be as an adult, since nature takes it's own effect on pets. Do you currently own a shihtzu or any other pet? Do you have any children? Are you looking for a small one for breeding purposes? Let me know... Thanks Julie

Original Message
Subject: Re: puppies
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:00: 05 -0700

Were you able to get weights on the puppies? I am very interested. How about prices? I would like to put a deposit on a puppy right away if you could get me the info.
Thank you for your time,
Ora
Original Message
Sent: Wednesday, November 10,2004 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: puppies

Hi there, the puppies are 4 1/2 weeks and the smallest weighs just under 1 pound and the others I am not exactly sure, but about 1 1/2-2 pounds. I will get a scale and get back to you on the exact puppy. Which one are you looking at? Let me know... Thanks Julie

Original Message
Subject: puppies
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:19: 12 -0700

Hello,
I was wondering how old your puppies are now and how much they weigh.
Ora

Offender: Tinsel Town Shih Tzus

Country: USA   State: Utah   City: Salt Lake City
Address: tinseltownshihtzus.com

Category: Shops, Products, Services

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