4-19-07
SUBMISSION TO consumer complaints.com
I hope to post this as a warning to others who may be thinking of donating, contributing, and/or supporting this site that they may well be better of not doing so.
In April I was looking for a dating site script and came upon OSDate at www.tufat.com. I tried the script out, and found it to be very buggy and problematic; however, since I am not a coder, I became a member of the forum (www.forum. Tufat.com) and found some assistance there from other members.
Upon being solicited in the forums to do so under the claims by some of the moderators and coders on the site (under the guise of donations to help, I made a monetary submission (http://www.forum. Tufat.com/showthread.php? T=22635&highlight=donation) because it was alluded to in the forum that if you donate you'll be answered quicker and by either the coders (programmers and creators of the script) and/or the moderators. I found this to be totally untrue, as even after my donation there were still lots of unanswered posts. Plus, posts would disappear for no apparent reason.
Over the following year, I became more familiar with the script, and had begun to answer some other forum members' questions on how to work with the script. I contributed, supported, and donated to this forum financially as well as professionally (using my knowledge of the script and components); I also spent a lot of time and effort writing detailed how to posts, taking screen shots, and assisting other members in general so much so, that I'd obtain the forum status of Senior Member.
I submitted these posts and continued to provide unpaid assistance and support (as did others) under the premise that I would continue to be a member as long as forum rules and guidelines were followed. The Rules as found on the forum registration page are as follows (or were, at the time of my preparing this report):
Forum Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
Although the administrators and moderators of $5 Script Archive Community Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of $5 Script Archive Community Forum, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
During the time I was a member, I and others noticed an acceptable moderator policy whereby the moderators allowed posts of a less-than-desirable nature, allowing threats to others, and threats of killing and sexual assault against others (as an example: http://forum. Tufat.com/showthread.php? T=26975, specifically see post #80 and the posts by sitz riz'). And when I or anyone else commented on these type posts, we were summarily chastised by the moderators either in the forums and/or via Private Message (pm').
Despite my request that due to the nature of this particular poster being so vulgar and threatening he be banned and/or the post deleted, the post and poster was allowed to remain.
On April 12th, I posted a thread asking if anyone in the forum was interested in purchasing a very catchy domain name for their OSDate script. My post was moved by moderator JF3000 to another section entitled Commercial Announcements - whose forum posting guidelines notate, Do you have a product or service that you would like to promote? Post your advertising announcement here!
Additionally, in others' submission of like-posts, it was deemed a more appropriate section as my first post (that was posted in another forum initially), so I had no issue with the moderator moving my post. However, another moderator, Eric Karz, didn't like my post, and had made several rude and curt comments in the post as well as statements about the domain name that were untrue. Even though this moderator, Eric Karz, had been rude, I responded in a positive and appropriate manner, letting him know that he was incorrect and why.
His wife or significant other known as Kathy, also a moderator, apparently did not like how I responded back to his incorrect assumptions and claims - despite the fact I did so diplomatically and factually - so she deleted the post. My assumption is that she does not want her man being made to look bad in front of others there is no other valid reason apart from her just reacting on a whim of indignation.
On April 13th, I reposted a new thread, basically stating the same thing in a different way. This is the post (I kept a copy of it this time!):
I purchased AwsomeDates.com/net/org previously a year ago to upload and run OSDate on, but ended up using another domain name instead so didn't use these. I never published, hosted, or uploaded the OSDate script (or any others) under these names, and it is an inactive (but still registered to me) domain name.
The last registration date is 4-13-07 so is available for a year if purchased now. Although I paid more for the AwsomeDates.com name (right now it currently has and will also come with the whoisguard), I will sell it and the other two (.net and.org) bundled for $30, or will sell separately for $10 each. At the buyer's option, I will leave the whoisguard in place on AwsomeDates.com or have it removed to show the new owners info; whoisguard for the other two names can be purchased separately by the buyer from the registrar if desired.
If you'd like to have an easy to remember and catchy domain name for your OSDate script, now's your chance! For more details and/or if you have any questions, please send me a pm.
This post was also promptly deleted by Kathy. I then reposted again the following:
FIRSTLY: TO THE IDIOT MODERATOR (S) THAT KEEPS DELETING MY POSTS: Darren has had this to say about posts in this section:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class="quote"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Ideally, announcements for new services that are based on tufat.com products. For example, a new website that uses osDate, etc.
There are some posts that "stretch" this a bit, but which are OK to keep. For example, if someone just made a nice website and wishes to share it with everyone, that's fairly harmless.
I think that "obvious, irrelevant" spam - like ads for viagara, adult-oriented websites, and "penis enlargers" and other nonsense should be removed, though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since my domain name has never been "active", it has never had anything published or uploaded to it, therefore does not have anything like SPAM or "other nonsense" which would warrant the removal of my post. So, to the moderator (s) doing the deleting, you should contact Darren personally if you have any issues before you delete any more of these type of posts which fall within the guidelines of acceptable use - and you also better have a damn good reason beforehand.
SECONDLY: This is in regards to my advertising my domain name for sale on the forum (Anyone interested in my domain name "AWSOMEDATES.com"? - in the Commercial Announcements forum of $5 Script Archive Community Forum) which has been deleted (twice now) by a Moderator (s) with no valid reason. I was in the middle of preparing answers back to both Eric Karz (he'd made untrue statements about my domain name on several levels) and to klj2000 who'd remarked that basically I couldn't post the domain name for sale in this section (it had been previously moved from the original section I'd posted in to the Commercial section by JF3000).
Just as I was finished with my reply, I went to "Preview message" and it was gone. Apparently one of the mods (unsure if it was klj2000 or Eric Karz, or someone else), nuked my post and all I got was: "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator".
There is NO definition in the forum for Commercial Announcements of specifically what you CAN or CANNOT post. There are LOTS of posts in the forum that have nothing to do with OSDate. Why don't these posts get deleted also? What type of discrimination is this?
Mostly I am appalled at the obvious double standard in this case, and secondly because I have been a supporting, donating, and contributing member of this forum for over a year so am at a loss to understand why I'm being singled out.
My post was not threatening; there was no name-calling, swearing, scam attempts, porn, or anything else untoward. I was merely hoping to let another OSDate forum member/user have an opportunity to obtain a relatively catchy domain name (AwsomeDates.com) at a reasonable price ($10).
Additionally, I fully disclosed the facts; also in a followup reply that it was a name I'd originally purchased to use with OSDate but wasn't going to be using after all. Having someone arbitrarily delete my post for no good reason is wholly unjustifiable and unwarranted under the circumstances.
I am of the opinion that unless the forum's section/subsection gets clarified, my post should be put back on and/or allowed (as should any others this has happened to). Further, unprincipled, cynical moderators like this who delete posts just because *they* personally don't feel' it belongs on the forum is unfair, prejudicial, and biased, and therefore should NOT be allowed a moderator status.
THIRDLY: About the domain name:
I purchased AwsomeDates.com/net/org previously a year ago to upload and run OSDate on, but ended up using another domain name instead so didn't use these. I never published, hosted, or uploaded the OSDate script (or any others) under these names, and it is an inactive (but still registered to me) domain name. The last registration date is 4-13-07 so is available for a year if purchased now.
Although I paid more for the AwsomeDates.com name (right now it currently has and will also come with the whoisguard), I will sell it and the other two (.net and.org) bundled for $30, or will sell separately for $10 each. At the buyer's option, I will leave the whoisguard in place on AwsomeDates.com or have it removed to show the new owners info; whoisguard for the other two names can be purchased separately by the buyer from the registrar if desired.
If you'd like to have an easy to remember and catchy domain name for your OSDate script, now's your chance!
For more details and/or if you have any questions, please send me a pm.
Not only was this post deleted, but Kathy then banned me as a user and member. I believed that to be a very unjustified act, and reported the situation to the owner of the site, Darren Gates. Following is a copy of the correspondence between he and I (some names may be changed/omitted to protect the innocent):
Original Message
From: "Tempurr
To: "Darren Gates"
Sent: Monday, April 16 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: I've been banned for no valid reason
Darren, After thinking about the situation and trying to get it resolved, it seems obvious that it will not be. This is unfortunate. So, I am requesting - nicely -that since you refuse to take a stand, override and correct the issue to make it right, that all my threads and posts in the forum under my registered name of Tempurr be deleted.
Since I am not able to do this myself due to being unjustly banned by your moderator "Kathy", I demand that you or whoever else you designate, do so immediately. I am requesting this because I no longer wish to support or otherwise contribute to a forum or any other venue that treats its members with such blatant disrespect to their rights to freedom of speech, expression, or the right to be able to voice their opinion in the same manner (and under the same rules and guidelines as outlined in said forum) as other members.
I did nothing wrong in posting my domain name for sale, but your moderator, "Kathy", arbitrarily and without just cause kept deleting my posts - even the posts I made afterwards complaining of the treatment - she apparently doesn't want any other members to see how unfair she is. Just because this so-called "moderator" personally disagrees with my outlook and opinion is NO reason to delete my posts. She is acting in a manner wholly from a personal point of view, and NOT from a neutral moderator stance as she should be - she bases her judgments and decisions not on fact, but rather on defiant whim and therefore is not capable of making sound, reasonable and/or appropriate moderating decisions.
This is not acceptable, and I do not wish to have my hard work and efforts, my contributions and posts to the forum (either by statements, attachments, feedback, opinions, or any other submissions), to remain on this site under the circumstances. My support and contributions were made under the premise that I had the right to express myself and that I would be treated in a fair and just manner by all members and moderators - I can certainly understand crossing the line when it comes to dealing with another member, however there is NO excuse for having a rogue moderator banning or otherwise curtailing the actions of others just because they happen to personally disagree with the poster/member.
If you are unable to delete my posts, please unban me (Tempurr) for the time it takes me to delete the posts myself - you have my word that I will not create any new posts while the unban is in effect. Should my posts/threads not be deleted as I've requested, I will have no other alternative but to resort to any and all other means necessary to assuage my vindication.
In addition, I am hereby formally requesting that all monies I have donated to the Tufat.com site be refunded immediately. You may contact me for refund instructions via return email.
Sincerely, Tempurr
Original Message
From: "Tempurr
To: "Darren Gates"
Sent: Sunday, April 15 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: I've been banned for no valid reason
Reasonable people? Well, I used to think so too... Until now. I've also re-reviewed your "Forum Rules", and nowhere does it say you can be banned for "being rude". The alleged rudeness has been perceived by the unnamed moderator. Besides, I really can't believe you'd allow me to be banned for something like this yet allow things so much worse to go on.
Again, I'd like to know *specifically* how the moderator determined the reason for my being banned - if not for personal reasons, then what specifically? For expressing my opinion? Since when are members banned for expressing their opinion when it is non-threatening and within the boundaries and guidelines of the forum rules? Far be it from me to be above edited my post - if the moderator in question has such a thin skin, please inform me what travesty of maliciousness I committed against him and I'd be happy to edit said alleged offending post!
Since it appears to be only one mod who's disgruntled about this, I would like to have the issue put to a vote - I don't believe that letting the moderator in this instance be the deciding factor, and since you are reluctant to take a stand I'd like to have a review board of mods please. What is the status btw of my being unbanned? This moderator was apparently on just a few moments ago, so why the delay do you know? Your first email to me said you were currently in discussion with them...?? In the interim of my being judged, I think it only fair and reasonable that I be unbanned, wouldn't you agree?
Thanx, Tempurr
Original Message
From: "Darren Gates"
To: Tempurr
Sent: Sunday, April 15 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: I've been banned for no valid reason
Hi Tempurr, I'd prefer not to reveal which moderator this was, for the moderator's personal privacy and protection. I think it's unlikely that any moderator has a personal vendetta against any user, though... They're all pretty reasonable people.
Thanks, Darren
Tempurr wrote:
Hi Darren, Well, my curiosity is peaked too, as I'm not privy to the "reason" either. And as far as posts go, apparently the mod deleted my first one, and since I'd not retained a copy have no way to prove to you it's innocuousness. I did attach a copy of the contents of the second and third posts in my first email to you - you may want to give that a look-see and judge for yourself.
Additionally, if you're leaving it up to the same moderator who has a personal vendetta against me, I think that's also wrong.in the interim, I would like to know who the moderator is? I certainly don't want to lay blame on anyone other than the guilty party... Besides, I think I have a right to know who my accuser is?
Thanx, Tempurr
Original Message
From: "Darren Gates"
To: "Tempurr
Sent: Sunday, April 15 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: I've been banned for no valid reason
Hi Tempurr,
I've messaged the moderator in question about this issue for possible reconsideration. Since I'm not actually privy to all of the posts/emails/PMs that may have gone into this decision, I'm reluctant to take a stand on this, but prefer to defer to the discretion of the moderator. Thanks, Darren Tempurr wrote:
I understand about your not wanting to micro-manage, however, this was just plain wrong - on several levels - and an out-and-out cheap shot. I would also like a better explanation of three things: 1. Why they kept deleting my posts, and 2. How is it they think I was being "rude" when I was merely expressing my opinion, and 3. Who this moderator is? Unless they are ashamed and/or have something to hide, there should be no reason their name can't be made known to me.
Thank you, Tempurr
Original Message
From: "Darren Gates"
To: "Tempurr
Sent: Sunday, April 15 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: I've been banned for no valid reason
Hi Tempurr,
Thanks for letting me know about this. I'm currently discussion the particular situation with the moderators. Generally, I try to defer discretion to the moderators (i.E., I try to respect their decisions, even if I disagree, mainly because I don't want to seem like I'm micro-managing anyone). I'll ask the moderator in question to review this case. I do appreciate your support, of course.
Thanks, Darren
Tempurr wrote:
Hello Darren,
It seems I've been banned from the Tufat.com forum website (entirely). I've apparently pissed off one of the moderators who've kept deleting my post for no valid reason... On the site it says "You have been banned for the following reason: rude". Well, if people are banned for being rude, then you probably should "ban" about 90% of the forum members! I'd been in touch with others via pm trying to get information on this. They suggested I email you directly (sorry, can't pm you because I've been "banned").
Synopsis: I've been trying to sell a domain name I bought for OSDate in the "Commercial Announcements" section, and they were deleted three times with no reason. I've enclosed a copy of my third post as a. Doc attachment. I've been a donating, supporting, and contributing member for over a year. My being banned is nothing less than some moderator's ego getting in the way, and is totally unjustified. Please speak to this moderator about their ethics, and also please unban me?
Thank you. Tempurr
As of today, 4-19-07, my posts as Tempurr have not been deleted as I requested. Nor have my financial donations been refunded.
I've tried communicating with these moderators in an effort to resolve the issue before I sound off to the general public, but to date have had no response. I feel strongly enough about this issue not being able to show freedom of expression, speech, and/or submit my opinions to the forum even though they are within the accepted rules and guidelines that I will voice my opinion in any other forum and/or venue I possibly can.
I further believe that the owner and some of the moderators will go to any length to protect each other: lying, cheating, scamming, or whatever it takes to protect their interests.
I have tried re-registering in order that I might report this abuse of moderators to the general forum, but each time I do I am banned by another moderator, JF3000 (one of Kathy and Eric's buddies), so they do not want word to get out of their discriminatory and unfair practices to be known or publicly viewed. I can see why they are ashamed! And so they should be these actions are appalling and unacceptable at most. I, and others, refuse to continue to remain mute at the unmitigated gall of these moderators!
I hope to post this as a warning to others who may be thinking of donating, contributing, and/or supporting this site that they may well be better of not doing so. Also, if you DO post to the forums and your posts disappear, this is likely the reason. And if you get banned, I can assure you that you will NOT receive your money back.
I encourage one and all to submit their opinion of this matter to the OSDate forum and/or this site. Although your post will probably be exorcized by the moderators I mentioned in the OSDate forum, at least it will show them that there are others who also despise their actions.
Thank you for listening.
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