When I purchased this 'Insurance' on 2/4/09, I was 8 weeks pregnant. After purchasing it 3 days later, I had a miscarriage. My husband and I later found out, it was twins. My doctor listed the reason as: Extreme Stress. I know it was brought on by this "business".
When I called this business, I was looking for cheap health insurance. I was the type of person that didn't believe in health insurance, so that's why we didn't have it, at all. Now we do. Real insurance.
I called them on 2/4/09 at 2:30pm that day. I talked with Tim Hussennetter (ext 210). Still, I don't believe that's his real name, but it could be. I explained I needed insurance and I found their number on the Internet. I didn't tell him at the time, that I was pregnant, even though, I knew I was. Pregnancy hormones were filling my mind and it felt like I couldn't think straight, but in my family, I handle the bill payments so I had to know what the bill would be, and if it was worth it.
During the conversation, Tim H. Was moving so fast, I could barely think straight. I felt, with the way the health care system is, this was our only way. My husband does make great money, but I was trying to help because this was an unplanned pregnancy.
While Tim H. And I talked, he explained to me the first thing the Insurance covers, and yes, he did say Insurance, said it would cover everything. I could take up to 10 years to pay a bill, not months and do it in my leisure. Of course, with a new baby on the way, I loved that.
Before he went into what all was what, he told me very fast, like a hop, skip and jump, what the down payment was. I had to ask him again because I missed it the first time. He said "it's only $259.00 but that includes both plans, A & B." I thought, that's high. Before I could say anything, to the point of over running my voice, he ran straight into what they offered...
He declared that they, CHBA, would pay 70% and we would pay just 30% with absolutely no deductible. I loved that. That's what we needed.insurance without a deductible. I was feeling the stress lift off my chest.
He went into say that it would cover Medical -70% they'd pay, Prescription -that we could save thousands, Dental -65% they'd pay, Vision with eye medical -50% they'd pay, Emergency Room -unlimited, but we pay the first $100.00, Ambulance -up to $4,000 and I would be covered under Accidental Insurance up to $15,000. So no matter what, we are covered.
I asked about doctors and how many are covered. Even asked about hospitals. He went on to say "that all doctors are listed on our site and all you have to do is go to your doctor and they'll accept you, no problem. We even cover you up to $5,000 if you need air support. We cover all hospitals." I asked what air support is, and he said "that's the helicopter that gets called if you need to be lifted to the hospital, fast." I thought, "wow, cool, ok, hope I don't need it."
He went on to say, that if we were to go to the hospital, and rack up the bills, we could be assigned a "case advocate". I stopped him right there and asked, "I don't mean to sound rude, but does this mean it's welfare?" He laughed and said "No! It's Insurance! How could that be welfare?!" I relaxed, some.
He continued on and said "that a 'case advocate' is someone who will contact you and discuss your medical bills with you, so you can make payments." I said, "why would we need to make payments, if this is insurance?" and he said "you have to pay the remaining amount we don't, like you pay 30% on the doctors visits and 35% on dental. You have to pay that." I said "oh sure I know that, so that's why?" He said "yes. That's why, we help you pay the bills off to. Great uh?"
We spent at least an hour and a half on the phone with all the information about the plans, A & B. I have had only insurance once in my life, and that was when I was younger, and then I didn't know much about it. So of course, I believed him and what he had to say. He was the "insurance salesman".
He went on to say that the $259.00 would go down to $139.00 by the next due date, and if I wanted to add my husband and anyone else, it would be just $10.00 per person. I can add them anytime. There is no wait limit. Of course, sounded way too good to be true, but I had those pregnancy hormones kicking my brain cells and I was trying to save money and time.
By the time our "sale" was getting close the end, he had told me that this was Insurance a total of 4 times, then. I know this because I have Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). I wrote it down in marks, because every time I would ask, he would say, "Yes, it is insurance." I was on his nerves with it and every time I would ask, I would tell him, like I tell every one else, "I just have to make sure." So to keep me from calling him back and asking him once again, I would make marks on my notes.
Once I had decided on this "insurance" he asked for my credit card number (debit used as credit). I gave it and asked, once again, how much is today's charge. He told me "$259.00 total today, and $139.00 on 3/4/09." I told him "alright". So he asked for the number, and I gave it. Then he told me, "to complete this, we'll have to do it over a recording, just to make sure you do know what it is you're buying." I thought, great! It'll be on record. All the better...
He told me, "Once we start the recording, if I mess up we'll have to start over, so if you have any questions now, make sure to ask them." I said that I didn't have any. I asked all I needed, at that time. Then he said, "so you'll know now, I will have you say and repeat, this is not insurance you agree to that, but I want you to know and understand, it is, ok?" I said, "yes you said it is 4 times, so ok." It made me feel like I was helping him out on his job, the way that went. Like if I didn't agree, he'd get fired.
He went on to say, once I get to "have a nice day", the recording is done and it will cut off. I said "ok." He also said that he'll ask for my card number during the recording and we'll only have so much time to do it, so have it ready and try not to take too much time or we'll have to start over and I know you don't want to do that." I said "ok I have it ready." Which I did. I was being the honest one, apparently.
The recording started and he went into what the plans covered and I would say, "Yes I agree" or "Yes" during the recording. We had gotten to "I do know this not Insurance" and I had to repeat it verbatim. I gave him my card number on recording and agreed to the plans that I thought was insurance because he told me a total of 5 times, at that time, that it was, off recording.
The recording ended and he said as he laughed, "but it is insurance, so don't worry about it. We just have to do that for records." I said, "oh, ok."
I confirmed the payments again and he told me my packet would arrive in 7 to 10 business days. It will include my cards and all the information I need to know about the plans. Sounded normal to me.
He went into explain how if I needed to, I could use the insurance before my package arrived. I thought that would be very helpful because I was pregnant and I needed to get to the doctor pretty soon. He explained how I will get an email and use my member number from the email, to use it on the site, to locate a doctor. I could use it right away. I said "great!" I mean, if I'm spending $260 on something, I want something in return, you know.
He gave me his name, spelled it out and his extension. Said to call him or anyone there, if I have any questions. So the call ended. I called at 2:30pm and I got off the phone with him at 4:20pm. Exactly.
I waited for the email to arrive. It arrived 1 day after the original sign up/purchase, even though he said "it would arrive that day of sign up, that it could possibly be there before we even got off the phone." (I was checking my mail while we talked; hadn't arrived) - I overlooked that because it could of been an email issue. That does happen, but in the email is where it caught my attention, it stated that I 'could not use it until 6pm the next day.' Not that same day, as he had stated. I was disappointed.
I went to the site that was listed in the email. It was unprofessional looking and all over the place. I didn't know where to begin. So I dealt with it. I placed in my member number and it didn't except it. I tried again, and it did. I looked over that, could be a server issue.
Once I was in the base, I looked around and found an area for doctors and hospitals and other area providers, like for dental. I needed a certain doctor, a OB/GYN. I was looking for a female. I was trying to get my things ready for when my packet arrived in 7 to 10 days. I clicked on the doctor link and I had place the info in, on what I was searching for. It brought up doctors over an hour away. I couldn't believe it. No one around my area is even in it.
I found a doctor that I thought I could deal with, but I really didn't like having to drive over an hour to see her, especially being pregnant during that time. I just knew I was going to be uncomfortable that long of a drive, pregnant, but I had no choice. I just paid $259.00.
I looked them up on the BBB and they had an F-. I was frantic.
The Stress Reared up.
My face got red and I could feel my blood pressure rise.
I called the doctor and it was out of service. I called another, it wasn't a female, none but one was, like I wanted, but it was a doctor, it was out of service. I had my husband call another because I was getting more aggravated and he called a few, some were changed, some moved and some didn't even exist. I was worried, very worried.
Finally we got a hold of a female doctor. She was over an hour away, just like the one I was looking at before. A little more away. My husband called and told them we belong to "Consumers Health Benefits Association." He made the appointment for the afternoon, but, when he said, in a kind of shocked way "we are an hour away, could you make the appointment a little later in the day?", I was wondering, why would you say it that way. They wouldn't work with us, at all. They were really rude. He got off the phone and said "we aren't going there." And I had to ask "then why make the appointment?!"
He told me to relax and go lay down for a while. I was starting to stress out, of course. I felt bad about spending the money, on something that was beginning to seem like a rip off.
As I laid there, I thought how stupid I was. I am usually very business savvy and I know how to handle myself. I was getting mad at being pregnant and for letting them take advantage of my condition. Of course, I calmed down and realized it wasn't me. It was them for even doing what they did.
Another day passed and I started worrying even more. We couldn't get a hold of anyone. Not even at the CHBA numbers. When my husband finally got a hold of someone, it was by luck, and they were very rude.
I had to go lay down so he could handle it and I began to cry, not just your normal cry, but I was almost in a seizure. I'm a tomboy and when I got "got" while pregnant, I felt Weak -extremely weak. That's when the miscarriage began.
The next day, I started bleeding, by that night, at 11:23pm I had to go to the emergency room. When we got there I was devastated. I knew what was happening. This was my first miscarriage, but I knew what was happening. I could feel it the night I was really upset.
We were there over 6 and a half hours. My husband told them that we are members of Consumers Health Benefits. They frankly said "I don't see why." I didn't either. I got checked and had the referral to get checked up on. It was still possible to keep the pregnancy. They had told me to rest, not to contact that company (referring to CHBA); even though, we didn't talk to the doctors or staff there, about them, at all. Not one moment did we discuss their service or problems. My husband was with me at all times, so I know he didn't.
Once we were ready to check out, we had to deal with the bill. My husband explains we don't have the card, but we do have insurance. She asked "who is it"; that's a normal question of course. So he said "CHBA" and she said "who?" and then he said "Consumers Health Benefits Association" she said "honey that's not insurance" My husband made me sit down out in the waiting room when she told him that, to keep me from getting more upset, but I could still hear them.
He told her that "they said it was and we'll get our card in a few days." She said, "what did they say you'd have to pay at the hospital, whats your deductible?" He said, there is no deductible. She said, "then that's not insurance, [she called him by his name]." I was shocked. I think I knew it, but with all that was going on, I just wanted it to be true, that they were insurance, like he said they were, over and over.
He pays the $100.00 like CHBA said we had to pay, and then we leave after 35 minutes or so.
We go home that night, I tell him that I will need bed rest tomorrow, which he already knows. So he makes arrangements to stay home with me. He misses a day of work.
Later that night, I start heavier bleeding. I'm losing the baby. The next day, I have to go back to the emergency. We get seen again and another doctor tells me he notices I use CHBA. He asks "who are they, I've never heard of them." My husband comments how they've ripped us off. I started to cry because of course, it's my fault. My husband realizes that I feel guilty and he tells me that "it's only money and we won't worry about it right now, it's not your fault."
That helped, but not much.
The doctor confirmed I was in fact losing the baby. We stay for tests and more tests. He comes back and says "from the look of it, you're losing it due to extreme stress, but a test will confirm it." We asked "how long it would take" and he said "just a couple of weeks." Of course, gave us condolences and we went through the bill payment again, but this time, the woman doing it, knew 'of' CHBA and she told my husband frankly, "Get away from them, now and I'm sorry they caused this." That hurt me. Not what she said, but that I agreed with her.
The miscarriage did its full round and as the week past, we still couldn't find a doctor they provided on their lists. I needed a check up. We called the doctor the hospital referred and it was almost like they laughed, my husband said. That when he told them we had CHBA for insurance. They seemed to hold back a laugh. Weird. I guess.
During this, we'd make appointments and cancel because I didn't want to get stuck with more bills.
My husband contacted CHBA to let them know that I lost my baby, had to go to ER and that they needed to handle the remaining. We paid the $100 per visit ($200 out) They said they will get the bills talked down. Talked down? Uh, no you're insurance, handle it, is what I thought. He almost said the same thing to them. The woman he spoke to: Gwen.
Gwen was nice, at first. He would call and deal with her when we needed to. I didn't want to speak to any of them, at all. I hated them, still do. They ARE the cause for my miscarriage. Nothing, anything, anyone can say, will change my mind on that.
Every day, since we signed up, someone has been calling and hanging up. Not leaving a digi-message or even a voice mail. They will hang up when the machine picks up. Sometimes at 8am and sometimes at 11pm. Doesn't matter. If someone here picks up, all we hear is breathing, like a harasser would do, and the caller ID says, 'Consumer Health Ben' (that's all is listed) with their main number.
We got our package. It was all saying the opposite of what Tim H. Said. He said we could take 10 years if we needed, to pay a bill, but this says 3 months. All the information didn't add up. You have to take a copy of a paper to see the doctor. Embarrassing! You have to bring in your prescription booklet in so your doctor can see what is cheapest for you. Waste of time. Especially for the doctor, who will not sit there to do that.
We went a week and a half after my miscarriage to get copies of the hospital bills. We took the card in so they could copy it. There were 2 bills, for 2 visits. Both were up there in price. One close to $3,000 and the other just $1.500. Not bad, but not that good either. We did pay the $200 ($100 per visit; so that wasn't added)
During all this, they would call every day, just to see "what you doing?" or to call and hang up. During very odd times. Early morning, dinner... Bedtime. It was almost like to remind us like we can't afford insurance so, deal with it.
So we decided, lets get these people Out of Our Lives. Cancel. He called. They were very rude, saying to my husband "she was an adult when I signed up, so I should of known when I was getting scammed!" Oh my Gawd, when he told me that.
I checked again with the BBB. Their rating was a C this time. Why? There were complaints, even from the DA from Illinois, twice! It even stated on there how the new customers had to repeat the "this is not insurance" sentence. The complaints were not getting taken care of, so why the change?
He called to cancel. They said that "if you have remaining bills, you'll have to give them to us so we can work it out for you." He canceled. I told him "I don't care about the bills, we can pay them ourselves, get them canceled." He agreed.
Second call, he called a woman in the 'case advocate' area and gave her the bill info. It took 3 days to get in touch with her.By this time, they knew we were going to cancel. She was rude and hateful. As my husband said, "sounds like she needs a good [blank]."
Once we got a hold of the woman we needed, (she claimed she called everyday to get a hold of us, to buy an answering machine). I don't see what the issue was. We have voice mail and a digital answering machine. Maybe she's the one that's been calling and hanging up when someone answers?
Once my husband got a hold of her, she said to fax the bills, all the bills over to her. That cost us $10.78 to fax it all. 6 pages. It was a waste of money.
It took 6 days and another person, like the woman he spoke to about the bills, was from The Karis Group. He called and did leave a message and said "[My name] call me and so we can get these bills taken care of" left his name and number. Who is he my father? A creditor? No. But he acted like it with his attitude. With that, I remembered that question I had asked Tim H. It was 'Is this welfare?' He did say no... But with that call, I think it was. No, I know CHBA is.
Over the 2 week period, while still losing our baby, they were calling trying to get bill information and bothering us about "taking care of our bills". They acted like creditors. I told them frankly and harshly one day "I pay my bills ON TIME so I don't have to be bothered by people like you!" They hung up on me. They were leaving messages all the time, on the answering machine that they claimed we didn't even own. That we needed to purchase one.
Once my head had less pregnancy hormones running through it, I called them myself. This was the first time since I had signed up, calling them. I called and confirmed the cancellation. I talked to: Gwen the 2 times I called to confirm.
If we were to keep the membership, we were to be billed on 3/4/09 $139.00, as what Tim H. Said. So when I called Gwen, she said, according to the call with my husband, the membership is canceled. She acted like I wanted it back. I confirmed with a strong "Hell No."
She was rude before I was. I hung up on her.
I called again the next day. With my OCD, I have no choice. I told my husband "I know they will charge us again. Watch and see."
I called and spoke to Gwen again on 3/2/09 to confirm cancellation. I thought to myself how they must not have that many crooks working for them. She asked my name, knew it because of the 'stink' we've been making lately. She laughed. I didn't ask why, I just didn't care. She asked for my member number, and said "Ok" like she was ready, she's done that before. I go to give my member number and she jumps down my throat, like she's done to my husband this whole time. He tries to respect women, from what I've seen.
I didn't go for it. I cussed her 'to hell have no waiting list.' I used every cuss word momma told me would cause her death. Gwen just sat there and I told her to confirm it was canceled. She did regretting it, and still tried to control me and I just hung up on her. Point blank.
3/4/09 came and went. No charge. Good. I thought about notifying the bank, just in case... But didn't.
3/5/09 has came. A charge pops up from CHBA. I wasn't shocked. For $139.95.
I immediately called them. I got a hold of a person guarding the calls. She tells me which number to call, and I do. I get a hold of Gwen again. I find that this is my punishment. For what, I haven't figured out yet.
I tell her I have a charge that needs to be taken off, now. She laughs, but I'm not supposed to hear her. She asks my name and of course, sighs. She did say "you sure did get noticed fast". I wasn't supposed to hear that. I replied by saying "I have a great bank and I do online banking." She played it off like she didn't say anything. That I was nuts. And yes, that's what she said "You're nuts I didn't say anything, must of been your miscarriage." Oh raw nerve.
So I TELL her to refund the money. I had my bank online chat at the same time. They're telling me that it's in pending, that if it clears, we will file charges because this isn't the first complaint on them. I was very upset because uh, why didn't they forewarn me! Then I realized, they wouldn't know, but they could at least say something.
Gwen comes back after "Finding" my file and says "when did you cancel" I said, "look at the damn file, quit being lazy." So she said "I see you canceled a couple weeks ago." I said "yeah, of course" and she went on to say she was sorry we were charged and she'll fix it. Left the phone.
She came back and said she seen where it was canceled. I commented on how she didn't leave. She just put me on hold. The pregnancy hormone was gone by this time and I was coming back to my business savvy. She was shocked. I told her I knew exactly what was going on and if that money did not return within 24 to 48 hours, my bank will handle further outcomes. I was online with them at the time, and she had already told me that the bank CAN defend me on my behalf.
She assured me that it will be returned by 24 hours. Apologized and I told her bluntly, saying sorry, doesn't make it right, nor fix it. Reminded her about the 24 to 48 hours and hung up on her, again.
It is now 24 hours and it has not been returned, nor out of pending. My bank and I are keeping an eye on it.
Since all this started, we have signed with Blue Cross Blue Shield, for only an extra $75 a month than this (a little less), and it's BCBS. If you have money to spend on this, spend it on much better insurance and something that is actual insurance, instead of a proxy, like CHBA.
I would of known better if I did it clear headed.
We are working on getting a FULL refund from this company, a total of $398.95. The sign up and the money they just charged my card. We don't know if we'll get it, but it's always worth the try. We will get the $139.95 because I called them on it before it even hit my account out of pending. (Which surprised them completely). The $259.00 is a little harder because he said "no refunds" 2 times while telling me about the plans, but they caused this miscarriage. The doctor called to tell me that I had "lost twins due to extreme high blood pressure caused by high stress." And his personal remarks were "more than likely, due to this Consumer Health place. Please cancel before trying again" I agree. And we have canceled, but money still being charged.
When we signed up with Blue Cross, he frankly told me, "If any insurance company, besides Auto, asks for a payment upfront without you signing anything, it's illegal. The insurance company has to have a form for you to sign and payment is not expected until you have signed it, and it's gone through Medical Underwriting, because with medical issues, even if they don't go by that, can cause your monthly cost to go up or down. They were not a true insurance company as they said to begin with." He said "the 260 you paid was for it. Once you'd figure it out, got your pack, you'd cancel and that's what they didn't care about, they've got your 260." and he's right. They got it.
Do NOT do business with this "Company". They don't even have a license, according to the Better Business Bureau.
That would explain the doctor lists. Their doctors don't exist. They're made up. There are even a couple that got shut down by the Health Department, due to their medical practices.
Do research on the "doctors" - you'll find this all out to.
If you're having issues (or even doing business) with them... Good Luck. You'll need it... Keep logs.
Hope I helped someone with what I said here. I know it was in great detail, but when you plan to fight a company, a legal one or not, the more information you have, the better.
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