A fair warning to anyone looking to buy a Great Dane puppy!
I consider myself pretty smart when it comes to buying a puppy. I insist on looking at the parents, I only buy AKC registered pups, I look at their health the health of the parents and any other dog on the property and I also take into account the place the pups were born and raised in. But as careful as I am, even I can get into a bind. Take my beautiful boy Cooper for instance. Hes gorgeous, but youd never know the problems I had/have with him. I found him on the Puppyfind website. He was gorgeous! Just what I was looking for in a pup. I contacted Jimmie Robinson of Dane Haven Kennels out in Alabama. I requested pics of the parents and their pedigree. He sent me Howard's Handsome Harli and Ebony Girl II's pedigree. The parents werent great looking and the pedigree had no one special in it. But hey, I didnt care too much about Champions in the pedigree, so I set up a time to go out there and look at the puppy. My mom and I took a long trip out to the kennel. We were taken aback by the sheer number of Great Danes that were on the property. We almost left then, but decided since we drove so far wed at least take a look. We were taken into this building that had 5 litters of puppies in there, but surprisingly it didnt smell and it was very clean! We were impressed! I saw Cooper and knew he was perfect! But I didnt want to make a rash decision and insisted on meeting his parents. We went out into the Kennel area where there was a large number of adult Danes, and a few litters of older pups. I was introduced to Howards Handsome Harli which was Coopers Sire. He looked A LOT better in person than he did on their website.in fact all of their dogs were of good size and substance. They all looked healthy and happy, and shockingly enough there was no smell out there either! We met Coopers Dam Little Ebony and decided that he would turn out to be a good looking boy. So we went back and picked up Cooper, took him up to the house to pay for him and get the paperwork. We got in the house, paid the money and then was told they would have to mail me his AKC registration. I about died.
Ive told people over and over NEVER to purchase a pup without paperwork in hand! And here I was thinking about it. I was holding this massive pup, that was gorgeous... He was calm... And I loved the look of his parents... So I went ahead and took that risk. Trust me, I was kicking myself the whole time! But I kept bugging them just about everyday for his registration information. I finally got it about a week later and registered him online. But when I registered Cooper I noticed that the registered name of his Dam was "Little Ebony of Dane's Haven". I got a tad curious because it wasn't the same name that was on the pedigree they sent me when I first asked about him. When I met Little Ebony, I thought that was just their call name for Ebony Girl II... Obviously Ebony Girl was number 2 so she could be called Little Ebony. But when I saw the name populate online, I knew AKC didn't change names on pedigrees. I bought the online pedigree and imagine my horror when I find out they sent me the GRAND-Dam's pedigree. Why? Because Cooper's Dam's Sire was none other than Howard's Handsome Harli! Meaning, Cooper's Sire mated to his Daughter. I just spent money on an inbred dog! I was lit. I contacted them immediately and they offered to take Cooper back, but of course I had him for a week by this point in time and was bonded to him, so that was NOT an option. After quite a bit of discussion they agreed to refund me $300 of his purchase price due to this grievous error. At least now my faith was restored in my decision to get Cooper from this breeder, at least they tried to fix the error that was done.
So I settled down, because after all I'm not a breeder... All I wanted was a show dog. You can still show an inbred dog, but should he Champion out, I doubt anyone would want to use him as a stud. No big deal, at least he could still be shown! Kinda sucked because my plans were to show, hopefully Champion the dog and use him as a stud and save his stud fees to buy a Euro blend later to show. But that's OK, I'm not a breeder so I came to terms with my inbred dog! Lol
I sent off his DNA to AKC to go ahead and get him profiled. Well then imagine my surprise when 4 weeks later, AKC writes me back telling me Cooper's registration is on hold pending investigation because there's no way that Howard's Handsome Harli is Cooper's biological father! Cooper was not to be bred, sold, transferred or shown until this matter was resolved.
OMG. I was stunned. I contacted the breeder immediately and I was told that it was OK. The mom was in their stud Yagor's pen for most of her heat cycle but had jumped in with Harli the last day and they had seen those two tie so they assumed he was the Daddy. But it is obviously Yagor's since Harli is Excluded.
So AKC ran that test... 4 weeks later I'm told No, Yagor was excluded as well!
AKC then requested the Dam's DNA to make sure she was really Cooper's mother... 4 weeks later we are told she was. So he at least had a mom, just no dad!
Next they had to go through the males that were on the property at the time of Little Ebony's heat cycle. So they tested Ace, Silver, George, Hunter
and Jaws. 4 weeks later we find that none of them matched either. George's DNA was incomplete and he has to be tested again.
And they had to test the dog they had in Birmingham, Saber, because he was down on the weekend. So we are waiting for those results to come in! Supposedly only one pup that was above 5 months old was on the property so they had to contact Josh's owner. They haven't been able to get a DNA sample out of him yet.
Luckily he has been UKC registered and has his International Registration, at least he can go to those shows to get his practice as a show dog until AKC gets this sorted out. I took him to the AKC sanctioned show in Atlanta GA on August 22nd 2009. I figured he'd get a good taste of the show environment, plus they had a Canine Optometrist there testing Eyes for the C.E.R.F. Certification. I went ahead and had Cooper tested. After all if he ever got his AKC paperwork straightened out and was able to show and Champion out, I was going to make sure he was fully tested before ever studding him out. Didn't want to breed a genetically sub-par dog. You'd think by now I'd expect the unexpected with this dog after all I've been going through... But still I was genuinely surprised when I was told he had Genetic Posterior Cortex Intermediate. Which is a Cataract on the back of his retina... in BOTH eyes! So the guy told me that he could not be C.E.R.F. Certified and they suggest never breeding him as it is an inherited trait. I also was told to have him tested every 6 months to a year to ensure that it wasn't spreading because it could lead to blindness! OMG.
Could this get ANY worse? I went home and researched this condition and found the following:
*Posterior Cortex Intermediate (lens defect; a cataract)
DISCUSSION: Eyelid and lens defects represent the major categories of eye defects found in the Great Dane. According to the CERF data, Lens defects in the breed are generally of a more serious order as they can and do result in reduction in visual acuity and even blindness. Several forms of cataracts occur in the breed that receive a "NO" upon examination, including anterior cortex, anterior suture, equatorial cortex, posterior cortex, posterior suture, and generalized cataracts. (Anterior cortex intermediate, posterior cortex intermediate, equatorial cortex intermediate, and generalize cataracts represent defined and persistent categories of cataracts in the breed.) Some forms of lens defects are listed as "Breeder Option" still, including various anterior and capsular punctuate defects. The defects listed in the "Lens" category in the Great Dane are roughly distributed between these defects that pass with a "Breeder's Option" and those rejected (so not receiving a CERF certificate).
I wrote to his breeder and explained what happened and that not only couldn't we get his AKC papers straightened out but he also has a Genetic Defect! I requested the rest of my money back since I had bought a show dog and now he couldn't even show!
Well they sent me a message back that stated: "According to the contract we do not refund any money. Bring the pup back as we said when u only had him after 5 days, and u where not happy with him then. We will replace the pup with another pup. We will not have any problem placing him in another home. U can pick one out of the next litter from Yagor. We will be taking him to our vet to verify the diagnosis, before another pup is giving to u. We don't advertise no pups as show dogs and never will."
I realize that breeders don't always view dogs as a member of the family, but I do. And even though Cooper cannot show, he's still a pet first and foremost. So no, I will not "return" Cooper... As I told them when I had him for only a week. Some Breeders like to use this because they know that the family is attached to the dog by this point and won't want to return them. Thus they looked like they "tried" to be helpful. So I responded:
"Ah so we are going to go through this again. I am not unhappy with Cooper, I am unhappy with your breeding practices. You knew I was looking for a show dog, you lied about his pedigree which we settled. Now come to find out you guys can't even figure out WHO his daddy IS! You advertised him and sold him as a fully registered AKC pup and I don't even have papers on him because you guys do not know which stud nailed your female. As I told you when I found out he was inbred that I will not return him to you, because he is part of our family not to mention the money and time that has been invested into him. I will say that if we cannot settle this amicably then I will pursue further action. I don't know of ANY court system that will side with your establishment seeings how you can't even get his papers straightened out. I will go for the price of him, his papers, his testing, his ear crop, time and aggravation spent trying to sort out what in the world you guys did. I will also have to add in my lawyer fees (As you know Lawyers aren't cheap) as well as travel expenses.
I will also be sure to notify the Dane Clubs I'm a member of (Both the Great Dane Club and the Anniston Kennel Club), I will notify my Dane friends on my facebook page (Which if you check is over 400 people both local and nationally) and of course I will note on my website on Cooper's page all the problems that I had dealing with your kennel, the genetic defects that your kennel is passing on as well as the fact that you can't keep up with who is breeding who. I bought an AKC registered show puppy... You guys can't even hold up the AKC registered part... Let alone breeding genetic faults.
I was hoping you would be a fair person. I dealt with the fact you lied about his pedigree... But I will NOT deal with the fact that he has lost his AKC papers, nor that he is Genetically defective. Which in turn could lead to BLINDNESS. I will be more than happy to bring him to a Canine Optometrist of your choice if you wish a 2nd opinion. As you can see the doctor that gave the CERF examine was NOT my Vet. So it's not like I'm trying to pull a fast one. It was an Optometrist at an AKC sanctioned event. You tell me how you wish to proceed. If you would like me to file suit, I will be more than happy to do so. Your establishment has not held up to ANY part of our transaction. And I know that I will have no problem winning my case. (I've already discussed it with them, but feel free to contact a lawyer and ask them yourself!) I am not trying to get his registration fees back, his crop job or any money that I have invested in him... All I'm asking for is the other $500 that I paid you for an AKC registered dog! However if you force me to pursue other avenues then they have advised me to add everything else in it as well. (His purchased price, Registration fees, Tests, Crop surgery, travel expenses, lawyer fees, and pain and suffering for the ordeal)
Please let me know how you wish to proceed. (Rest assured, I will not drop this)"
So needless to say, even though I thought I was a relatively smart person when looking at pups, I've quickly learned that SO many things can go wrong, FAST. I will say that if all you are looking for is a pet, then sure it doesn't really matter about pedigrees etc. And for a lot of people they are looking for a lower priced dog, especially in this day and time. But if you are looking for a show dog, or even a quality dog that won't have health problems, then it's best to find a REPUTABLE breeder that does do the health testing on their dogs, and carefully monitors their dogs in heat. While that won't always ensure a trouble free dog with no health concerns, it does give you a better chance than dealing with a breeder like this! They were really nice people, They have really nicely built dogs (when seeing them in person). They did at least give me some of my money back when they lied about his pedigree. They never disappeared on me (well of course until know after I told them Cooper was genetically defective), they did try to find Cooper's Sire, but never did. I am not happy that they will not issue a refund when they sold a fully registered AKC pup and the dog ends up losing his papers due to their lack of supervision with their females in heat. Not to mention the fact they are breeding Genetically defective dogs. But what gets me the most is that they will not refund the money you paid for an fully AKC registered dog that due to their neglect looses their registration. I do not suggest doing business with this breeder (Jimmie Robinson of Dane Haven). The prices they charge for their dogs is astronomical when you look at what you get. (Unregistered, Genetically Defective Dogs). They have since revised their 2yr Health Guarantee to state should the Puppy DIE of an inherited disease they will replace the puppy. Thought I'd give everyone a fair warning, and hopefully by reading all of this, someone can learn to be more cautious with their choice than I was. ;-)
I will say though, I still LOVE my Cooper, and he's still an outstanding looker! Even though he has no daddy and his eyes are bad! Lol ;-)
0 comments